Running Lane - Whose Call?

[MrUmpire]

Mr. Childress:

Give it up. Once Jeff makes his position known he will not chhange it. In all the time I've read this board, he has never, make that NEVER, admitted that he was wrong.

Instead, he changes the discussion and rests his answer on, "that might be okay for you and (whomever), but I don't work those games."

Logic means nothing. Facts mean less. Jeff will never, ever admit that you are correct.

That good news is that Jeff is pretty much unique on this site.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Mr. Childress:

Give it up. Once Jeff makes his position known he will not chhange it. In all the time I've read this board, he has never, make that NEVER, admitted that he was wrong.

Instead, he changes the discussion and rests his answer on, "that might be okay for you and (whomever), but I don't work those games."

Logic means nothing. Facts mean less. Jeff will never, ever admit that you are correct.

That good news is that Jeff is pretty much unique on this site.

First of all me and Carl goes back before this site was in full swing and every attended McGriff's site in the mid 90s. I have argued with him as well as others for years about stuff. Nothing new or unique. And usually he spends a lot of time telling us about a book that I have yet to see many people even reference as a training tool or as the guide for umpiring. Sorry, but true.

I like how many have yet to address the issue at hand. I love you baseball guys (mostly on this site), you sure never like to give references to stuff, but share a lot of "opinions" usually based on some logic from another level that would not apply to you unless you are a pro umpire. No, let us just take your word for it, rather than any mechanic references. I gave two examples of levels I actually work.

Yes, let us reference a book that most umpires I know do not even use or care about (honestly have not heard anyone I work with live by Carl's books or know it exists). Let us not even talk about the CCA Manual and not a single reference to even what the NF book says (and is not used by everyone BTW). Yep, great logic on your part.

Peace

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all me and Carl goes back before this site was in full swing and every attended McGriff's site in the mid 90s. I have argued with him as well as others for years about stuff. Nothing new or unique. And usually he spends a lot of time telling us about a book that I have yet to see many people even reference as a training tool or as the guide for umpiring. Sorry, but true.

Are you kidding me? Carl's books are referenced frequently at this site alone.

I like how many have yet to address the issue at hand. I love you baseball guys (mostly on this site), you sure never like to give references to stuff, but share a lot of "opinions" usually based on some logic from another level that would not apply to you unless you are a pro umpire. No, let us just take your word for it, rather than any mechanic references. I gave two examples of levels I actually work.

You were given facts, not opinion and, as usual, you changed your argument to dismiss those.

Let us not even talk about the CCA Manual and not a single reference to even what the NF book says (and is not used by everyone BTW). Yep, great logic on your part.

Done and done. Everything you ask for is given, then you reword what you ask for. Discussing most anything with you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Fortunately, you have no impact on the reality of umpiring, anywhere.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Are you kidding me? Carl's books are referenced frequently at this site alone.

And that is a ringing endorsement? Just for the record, the people I have worked with over the years references things from Referee Magazine than they would Carl's book. I belonged to associations that brought in people from Referee Magazine and I have never seen Carl speak or anyone buying his book and giving it away to newer or umpires wanting something to read. Actually if his book is even referenced there are people that have mixed opinions about its validity.

That being said there are two books that Carl wrote that I think were outstanding at the time and what I read early on. But even some of those things have changed over time.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

You were given facts, not opinion and, as usual, you changed your argument to dismiss those.

Actually I had facts that backed up my opinion. I said what my state had as a way to cover these plays and I showed what the CCA book showed as well. This has not changed from the beginning of this discussion. I know you do not agree with this, but I am waiting for a reference that says "always" what the PU has to call. None of the books I have been talking about reference those types of statements. Only our state mechanics powerpoint gives a specific situation where the PU has coverage for this and that is on bunt coverage. Other situations it makes no reference that I could find or takes the 1st Base Umpire off the hook on these calls in a 3 or 4 person system.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Done and done. Everything you ask for is given, then you reword what you ask for. Discussing most anything with you is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

You have not given me any reference to what I was asking. It was stated as always, you showed something that did not say that or even say who had this specific call. Just admit you could not find that reference and that your opinion is what you were going with. I have an opinion, but I also supported my position with some facts that no such reference was so explicit that no other option was possible. And someone even admitted there was no reference in the books I was referring to.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Fortunately, you have no impact on the reality of umpiring, anywhere.

Really? I am still the chairperson of a clinic if and when we choose to run one again. And honestly if I have no impact I have achieved what I wanted to in this game and impact is not something I would be seeking. Again, this obviously bothers you more than it bothers me. I think it is simple to give references that support claims. If it is not there, then state it is just your opinion. Nothing wrong with saying "I feel this is the way it should be done." We do this all the time in my other sports and often disagree with methods and best practices. But baseball umpires here seem to have a problem doing just that.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

No insult intended to either of you, both of whom I normally respect here.

But this is the stupidest argument ever on the internet. Really - 2 pages arguing over essentially one misplaced use of the word "always" as opposed to "Always except in places that don't write down their mechanics"? Ridiculous.