Running Lane

[englanj5]

Is there a rule that says a runner is out if he avoids a tag at first by running inside the foul line and not staying in the running lane? I watched a high school game yesterday where the home plate umpire ruled the runner was out because he ran around a tag at first in fair territory. Thanks for any insite to this play.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by englanj5
Is there a rule that says a runner is out if he avoids a tag at first by running inside the foul line and not staying in the running lane? I watched a high school game yesterday where the home plate umpire ruled the runner was out because he ran around a tag at first in fair territory. Thanks for any insite to this play.

High School Rule 8-4-2.a "Any runner is out when he: a. runs more than three feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged....while the runner is advancing or returning to a base". pg 54

[David B]

Originally posted by englanj5
Is there a rule that says a runner is out if he avoids a tag at first by running inside the foul line and not staying in the running lane? I watched a high school game yesterday where the home plate umpire ruled the runner was out because he ran around a tag at first in fair territory. Thanks for any insite to this play.

The rule was quoted above, I just wanted to mention that the umpire did not call him out for NOT staying in the running lane, he called him out for running out of the base line.

Its the same when the runner is advancing or returning to any base.

Thanks
DAvid

[englanj5]

The ump told me that running to the fair side of the first base line and avoiding the tag was against the rule. The runner was not called out for running over three foot outside the base line, he was called out for being on the fair side of the base line when he avoided the tag. I read FED rule 8.4.1g and the exception and I can't find where the runner has to run in the running lane unless a throw is being made and he interferes with that throw. I think the ump blew the call.

[Edited by englanj5 on Mar 22nd, 2005 at 02:44 PM]

[GarthB]

Sounds like he got the call right for the wrong reason.

[BayouUmp]

45-foot line is only a factor when there is a question of interference with a fielder or throw. (See exception to 8-4-1-g).

Garth nailed it, right call, wrong reason. Batter-Runner is out because of 8-4-2-a.

Questions: He ran into fair territory? How close to the base was this and who was attempting to apply the tag from what position?

Consider this: Throw is a little up the line, drawing the 1st baseman into the baseline in front of the bag. Batter-runner, seeing this, moves into fair territory across the 45-foot line to avoid collision. 1st baseman catches the ball, but can't apply the tag since the batter-runner has run around him and to the bag....What do you have?

Nothing!

[Lapopez]

Originally posted by GarthB
Sounds like he got the call right for the wrong reason.

Would this be assuming the runner was more than 3 feet from the foul line in fair territory? The original post didn't specify this.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Lapopez

Would this be assuming the runner was more than 3 feet from the foul line in fair territory?

Yes, it would.

The original post didn't specify this.

No, it didn't.

As many posts, it didn't specify much and as we often do, we fill in the blanks. Three feet is not a significant distance and it is, in my mind, at least, much easier to picture a runner who is going to first and avoiding a tag in fair territory as being this far or farther from his baseline than not.

If he was not three feet from is baseline, I'm sure the original poster will let us know.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Lapopez

Would this be assuming the runner was more than 3 feet from the foul line in fair territory?

No. But it would be assuming that the runner veered more than three feet from a line between his position when the tag was attempted and the base -- depending on his position that might or might not be the foul line.

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by jicecone

High School Rule 8-4-2.a "Any runner is out when he: a. runs more than three feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged....while the runner is advancing or returning to a base". pg 54

The purpose of the running lane is to restrict the batter-runner in such a way so that he does not interfere with the fielder receiving the throw at 1st.

The running lane is 3-feet wide. It is possible that a runner could be on the extreme left-hand side of the running lane when he begins an evasive maneuver to avoid a tag. That would allow him to deviate 3-feet either side of his current location, which could take him about 3-feet into fair territory, out of the running lane.

Would a runner who did this be out for leaving the baseline? I would say not.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[mcrowder]

David, it's possible that the batter-runner is 4 (or more!) feet inside the baseline or 10 feet (or more!) outside it - as long as he doensn't interfere with a throw while being there, he's done nothing wrong.

So our BR, 4-feet inside the baseline, could end up nearly 7-feet inside the baseline when avoiding a tag, and still have done nothing wrong. (Watch Ichiro after a slap hit on an outside pitch - he falls at least 4 feet inside the baseline all the time.)

Don't get the running lane confused with other rules. It is ONLY relevant when the issue of interference with a thrown ball comes into play.

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by mcrowder
David, it's possible that the batter-runner is 4 (or more!) feet inside the baseline or 10 feet (or more!) outside it - as long as he doensn't interfere with a throw while being there, he's done nothing wrong.

So our BR, 4-feet inside the baseline, could end up nearly 7-feet inside the baseline when avoiding a tag, and still have done nothing wrong. (Watch Ichiro after a slap hit on an outside pitch - he falls at least 4 feet inside the baseline all the time.)

Don't get the running lane confused with other rules. It is ONLY relevant when the issue of interference with a thrown ball comes into play.

You're saying exactly what I meant. Maybe I didn't say it very well.

I agree - there is no correlation between a running lane violation and being "out of the baseline."

No matter where a runner might be, he may not deviate more than 3-feet in an attempt to avoid a tag. If that happens to be the batter-runner, the running lane has no function on such plays.

Agreed.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[englanj5]

Bayouump hit it on the head. The throw was up the line and drew 1st baseman off and ball was fielded in foul territory. As the runner went by, he stepped to the inside of the foul line into fair territoty to avoid the tag, which he did. After arguing with the plate ump about call, he said that the runner was called out for running into fair territory to avoid tag. The running 3 foot outside or inside of the foul line was not part of his decision to reverse the safe call that was given by the fistbase ump.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by englanj5
Bayouump hit it on the head. The throw was up the line and drew 1st baseman off and ball was fielded in foul territory. As the runner went by, he stepped to the inside of the foul line into fair territoty to avoid the tag, which he did. After arguing with the plate ump about call, he said that the runner was called out for running into fair territory to avoid tag. The running 3 foot outside or inside of the foul line was not part of his decision to reverse the safe call that was given by the fistbase ump.

"The running 3 foot outside or inside of the foul line was not part of his decision to reverse the safe call that was given by the fistbase ump."

Nor should it have been. The rule prohibit running 3 feet from his baseline, not the fair or foul lines.

The more you describe it, the more it seem the umpire made the right call for the right reason. His fault it seems is in making an incomplete explanation of his call. He should have said he called him out for running three feet from his baseline to avoid the tag. His explanation just gave the direction of the avoidance, not the distance.