Running Lane - Whose Call?

[JRutledge]

Unless the philosophy has changed, I believe either one can call this. The HP umpire might have other things going on based on many other plays, so I think either one is responsible to call this if necessary. I know that has been the philosophy at other levels.

Peace

[rbmartin]

This is a good subject to bring up in your pregame conference.
In my view either one could call it. I had field one night and in pre-game HP was adamant that RLI was his and only his call. OK sir, lets play.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

This is a good subject to bring up in your pregame conference.
In my view either one could call it. I had field one night and in pre-game HP was adamant that RLI was his and only his call. OK sir, lets play.

If you're looking at the base, how will you see RLI?

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If you're looking at the base, how will you see RLI?

I'm watching and listening for a lot of things (ball, base, runners feet, fielders feet etc). If you only watched the base, interference or obstruction would never be called.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

I'm watching and listening for a lot of things (ball, base, runners feet, fielders feet etc). If you only watched the base, interference or obstruction would never be called.

Sounds as if you might be failing to take advantage of the division of labor that the 2-umpire system permits.

In any case, to answer the question, in every manual and course of instruction I know, RLI is PU's call. And it's PU's call because BU should not be looking there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If you're looking at the base, how will you see RLI?

You are telling me you only focus on the base? And if it is obvious you think only the PU can make this call? Not a chance. If that is the logic then a PU should never see a swiped tag either. You have to see the entire play. And yes I would be watching the throw as well sometimes. Again this might depend on positioning that I am in of course, but if this is obvious I do not know why a BU cannot make that call.

Peace

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...And if it is obvious you think only the PU can make this call? ...I do not know why a BU cannot make that call.

The call belongs primarily to the plate umpire because he has a better angle on the position of the runner's feet as he approaches first base. While the base umpire may have secondary responsibility on the call, I think it would have to be so obvious as to not "need" a call for him to get it. A play involves both a ball and runner. The base umpire is initially focused on the ball so that he can read the "trueness" of the throw. He can't at the same time observe the position of the feet of the runner. The plate guy can because he does not have to have primary focus on the ball. When there is an "untrue" throw that requires a swipe tag the base umpire can stay with the ball to the tag of the runner.

I submit it is very difficult to watch the ball and the position of the feet of the batter-runner simultaneously, thus making this violation the primary responsibility of the plate umpire.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

The call belongs primarily to the plate umpire because he has a better angle on the position of the runner's feet as he approaches first base. While the base umpire may have secondary responsibility on the call, I think it would have to be so obvious as to not "need" a call for him to get it. A play involves both a ball and runner. The base umpire is initially focused on the ball so that he can read the "trueness" of the throw. He can't at the same time observe the position of the feet of the runner. The plate guy can because he does not have to have primary focus on the ball. When there is an "untrue" throw that requires a swipe tag the base umpire can stay with the ball to the tag of the runner.

I submit it is very difficult to watch the ball and the position of the feet of the batter-runner simultaneously, thus making this violation the primary responsibility of the plate umpire.

This all depends on the mechanics you are using. In a 4 man that might be true. In a two person or three person that might not be true at all based on many factors. And I do not focus that much on the ball as a BU. I watch where the ball is being thrown mostly. If you follow the ball the play might blow up on you and not see everything. And I did not say that the PU was would not be watching this, but to act like neither umpire can call this is silly too. I simply said that both can call this if they see it. It is about angles and in some plays the PU is not on the line directly or can be screened.

Peace

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This all depends on the mechanics you are using. In a 4 man that might be true. In a two person or three person that might not be true at all based on many factors. And I do not focus that much on the ball as a BU. I watch where the ball is being thrown mostly. If you follow the ball the play might blow up on you and not see everything. And I did not say that the PU was would not be watching this, but to act like neither umpire can call this is silly too. I simply said that both can call this if they see it. It is about angles and in some plays the PU is not on the line directly or can be screened.

Peace

I wrote about primary coverage and secondary coverage. Not about only coverage and no coverage. The same is true for 2-man and 3-man mechanics. I did not write that the BU follows the ball only. If the BU reads a true throw, he moves his eyes to the base and then listens for the "slap-thud," on an "untrue" throw his focus must remain on the ball longer to see where the throw will take F3. So on non-true throw the BU will have a hard time seeing the feet of the BR, the flight of the ball, and F3. The PU does not have to worry about the first two things, so he has primary coverage for the BR's feet on a non-true throw. On a true throw the plate umpire has nothing to worry about at first base but the position of the BR's feet. (Swipe tags, etc. are not likely to happen on true throws.)

So while both umpires can call this, it is the PU's primary responsibility in all mechanics and a secondary or tertiary responsibility for BU in all mechanics. This is why it is important for the PU to be 1BLE if he has to stay home on the play. Furthermore the PU is much more credible than the BU for this violation, because of the angle he has.

[Carl Childress]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This all depends on the mechanics you are using. In a 4 man that might be true. In a two person or three person that might not be true at all based on many factors. And I do not focus that much on the ball as a BU. I watch where the ball is being thrown mostly. If you follow the ball the play might blow up on you and not see everything. And I did not say that the PU was would not be watching this, but to act like neither umpire can call this is silly too. I simply said that both can call this if they see it. It is about angles and in some plays the PU is not on the line directly or can be screened.

Peace

I've read the full thread. At the risk of offensing some people, there's a great deal of misinformation in these posts. Running lane rules are essentially the same everywhere.

1. It's always the plate umpire's call. 2-man,l 3-man, 4-man. If he's gets screened, he should move from high school to junior high. Especially in 2-man, the base umpire will never have the correct angle.

2. The runner must have both feet in the running lane or be in jeopardy of an out for interference. If he doesn't interfere, he may run anywhere he wants.

3. The ball doesn't have to hit the batter-runner. But if it is thrown and the fielder covering first misses it, the umpire must judge it was a quality throw. If yes, BR is out. If no, E2 (or whoever).

4. If the fielder behind the runner DOES NOT THROW, there can be no interference. It's different when the batter interferes with the catcher's throw to a base. At the plate, the catcher does not have to throw.

5. New this year in NCAA (and already the rule in OBR): If the batter-runner has been advancing legally, as he nears the base he may le\ave the running lane to acquire the base. Jim Evans started preaching that in 1991. In 2007 it finally showed up in the book. See section 282 in the 2012 BRD.

This is pretty easy stuff though it is one of the rules many amateur umpires have difficulty getting their heads around.

Mostly, it's like 3 strieks and you're out. The only judgment ever involved is: The throw didn't hit the batter-runner and the covering fielder didn't catch the throw.

KISS, fellows. Now, obstruction? That's tough! Running lane? Kindergarden.

Of course, one must admit in some venues it takes guts to make that call. But if you can't, take up soccer.

[MrUmpire]

"So it goes."