The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 09:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 177
Gorilla Arm

I did a search on this site and found that using the gorilla arm is a balk in Fed but not in OBR. In OBR would it make a difference if the ball was in the hand attached to the arm that was swinging?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 09:19am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
I did a search on this site and found that using the gorilla arm is a balk in Fed but not in OBR. In OBR would it make a difference if the ball was in the hand attached to the arm that was swinging?
Are you talking about a pitcher swinging his arm while he's down in the stretch looking in for the signal? If so, I'm surprised this is considered a balk in any organization. What FED rule is this in violation of?

So, No, it doesn't matter what hand the ball is in as the pitcher does this under OBR.

(Edited to add) Okay, I did a quick search on this board for "gorilla", and found some pertinent discussions. I guess it was deemed a balk in Fed under the guise that a pitcher who is in the stretch must have his pitching hand on his back or down his side.

Those discussions were over five years old. I suppose NFHS didn't come to its senses yet and instructed to ignore this, right?
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker

Last edited by Manny A; Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 09:47am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 10:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 11:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!
One time they asked for feedback. I told them that if they would get rid of differences in the playing rules that have nothing to do with safety in a youth program, umpiring would be more consistent since most umpires do a lot of OBR ball as well.

Rita
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 12:31pm
JJ JJ is offline
Veteran College Umpire
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 1,122
The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

JJ
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 01:03pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ View Post
The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.
Not sure why an OBR umpire would focus on something that is perfectly legal.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 03, 2012, 04:49pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ View Post
The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

JJ
Actually the wording is the same in OBR pertaining to the hand, and arm to the back or side. It's just not enforced the same.

If they enforced everything to the letter, Mike Mussina balked everytime from the set position.
__________________
I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 04, 2012, 08:01am
JJ JJ is offline
Veteran College Umpire
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven tyler View Post
if they enforced everything to the letter, mike mussina balked everytime from the set position.
+1

jj
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 04, 2012, 08:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
Actually the wording is the same in OBR pertaining to the hand, and arm to the back or side. It's just not enforced the same.

If they enforced everything to the letter, Mike Mussina balked everytime from the set position.
I believe the wording is different. OBR says one hand at his side. It doesn't say which one.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 04, 2012, 09:47am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
I believe the wording is different. OBR says one hand at his side. It doesn't say which one.
Well, the wording is at least close enough for horse shoes or hand grenades. Does the wording mention the pitching hand? I think we're splitting hairs just a little too fine on this one.
__________________
I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 04, 2012, 07:30pm
DG DG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!
And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 05, 2012, 12:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ulster County, NY
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.
It's in the 2012 Fed Casebook (and 2011): 6.3.1 (P)

6.1.3 SITUATION P: With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in
the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down
slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING: In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 05, 2012, 07:08am
CT1 CT1 is offline
Official & ***** Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie View Post
It's in the 2012 Fed Casebook (and 2011): 6.3.1 (P)

6.1.3 SITUATION P: With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in
the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down
slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING: In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.
The explanation in RULING (b) is absolutely insane. F1 hasn't even come set yet. How can movement of his pitching arm be considered the start of his pitching motion?

In addition, well-coached base runners are watching his feet, not his free arm.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 05, 2012, 11:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
The explanation in RULING (b) is absolutely insane. F1 hasn't even come set yet. How can movement of his pitching arm be considered the start of his pitching motion?

In addition, well-coached base runners are watching his feet, not his free arm.
A MLB pitcher was balked for this once. He was deemed to have starting to go to his set position
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 06, 2012, 08:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.
Sorry, but you're wrong, DG. Cookie posted the case book cite and the gorilla arm is called here in New Haven County, CT all the time. It's one of the most ridiculous rules so to get rid of it, we call it.
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ASA needs to get off the fence on Gorilla Gold Grip wadeintothem Softball 9 Mon Jun 11, 2007 08:26pm
Pitcher uses Gorilla Arm johnnyg08 Baseball 10 Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:43pm
Gorilla Arm 2rad4u Baseball 22 Sat Mar 03, 2007 02:54pm
Gorilla Stance blueump Baseball 49 Thu Apr 14, 2005 07:56am
Gorilla stance, both hands moving - II Carl Childress Baseball 1 Wed Apr 13, 2005 04:54pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1