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-   -   Gorilla Arm (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/92184-gorilla-arm.html)

David M Fri Aug 03, 2012 09:07am

Gorilla Arm
 
I did a search on this site and found that using the gorilla arm is a balk in Fed but not in OBR. In OBR would it make a difference if the ball was in the hand attached to the arm that was swinging?

Manny A Fri Aug 03, 2012 09:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M (Post 850877)
I did a search on this site and found that using the gorilla arm is a balk in Fed but not in OBR. In OBR would it make a difference if the ball was in the hand attached to the arm that was swinging?

Are you talking about a pitcher swinging his arm while he's down in the stretch looking in for the signal? If so, I'm surprised this is considered a balk in any organization. What FED rule is this in violation of?

So, No, it doesn't matter what hand the ball is in as the pitcher does this under OBR.

(Edited to add) Okay, I did a quick search on this board for "gorilla", and found some pertinent discussions. I guess it was deemed a balk in Fed under the guise that a pitcher who is in the stretch must have his pitching hand on his back or down his side.

Those discussions were over five years old. I suppose NFHS didn't come to its senses yet and instructed to ignore this, right?

ozzy6900 Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:44am

In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!

Rita C Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 850886)
In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!

One time they asked for feedback. I told them that if they would get rid of differences in the playing rules that have nothing to do with safety in a youth program, umpiring would be more consistent since most umpires do a lot of OBR ball as well.

Rita

JJ Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:31pm

The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

JJ

Manny A Fri Aug 03, 2012 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ (Post 850899)
The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

Not sure why an OBR umpire would focus on something that is perfectly legal.

Steven Tyler Fri Aug 03, 2012 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ (Post 850899)
The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

JJ

Actually the wording is the same in OBR pertaining to the hand, and arm to the back or side. It's just not enforced the same.

If they enforced everything to the letter, Mike Mussina balked everytime from the set position.

JJ Sat Aug 04, 2012 08:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven tyler (Post 850918)
if they enforced everything to the letter, mike mussina balked everytime from the set position.

+1

jj

umpjim Sat Aug 04, 2012 08:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 850918)
Actually the wording is the same in OBR pertaining to the hand, and arm to the back or side. It's just not enforced the same.

If they enforced everything to the letter, Mike Mussina balked everytime from the set position.

I believe the wording is different. OBR says one hand at his side. It doesn't say which one.

Steven Tyler Sat Aug 04, 2012 09:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 850944)
I believe the wording is different. OBR says one hand at his side. It doesn't say which one.

Well, the wording is at least close enough for horse shoes or hand grenades. Does the wording mention the pitching hand? I think we're splitting hairs just a little too fine on this one.

DG Sat Aug 04, 2012 07:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 850886)
In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!

And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.

cookie Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 850993)
And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.

It's in the 2012 Fed Casebook (and 2011): 6.3.1 (P)

6.1.3 SITUATION P: With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in
the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down
slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING: In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

CT1 Sun Aug 05, 2012 07:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie (Post 851007)
It's in the 2012 Fed Casebook (and 2011): 6.3.1 (P)

6.1.3 SITUATION P: With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in
the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down
slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING: In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

The explanation in RULING (b) is absolutely insane. F1 hasn't even come set yet. How can movement of his pitching arm be considered the start of his pitching motion?

In addition, well-coached base runners are watching his feet, not his free arm.

Rita C Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 851011)
The explanation in RULING (b) is absolutely insane. F1 hasn't even come set yet. How can movement of his pitching arm be considered the start of his pitching motion?

In addition, well-coached base runners are watching his feet, not his free arm.

A MLB pitcher was balked for this once. He was deemed to have starting to go to his set position

ozzy6900 Mon Aug 06, 2012 08:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 850993)
And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.

Sorry, but you're wrong, DG. Cookie posted the case book cite and the gorilla arm is called here in New Haven County, CT all the time. It's one of the most ridiculous rules so to get rid of it, we call it.


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