Gorilla Arm

[David M]

I did a search on this site and found that using the gorilla arm is a balk in Fed but not in OBR. In OBR would it make a difference if the ball was in the hand attached to the arm that was swinging?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by David M

I did a search on this site and found that using the gorilla arm is a balk in Fed but not in OBR. In OBR would it make a difference if the ball was in the hand attached to the arm that was swinging?

Are you talking about a pitcher swinging his arm while he's down in the stretch looking in for the signal? If so, I'm surprised this is considered a balk in any organization. What FED rule is this in violation of?

So, No, it doesn't matter what hand the ball is in as the pitcher does this under OBR.

(Edited to add) Okay, I did a quick search on this board for "gorilla", and found some pertinent discussions. I guess it was deemed a balk in Fed under the guise that a pitcher who is in the stretch must have his pitching hand on his back or down his side.

Those discussions were over five years old. I suppose NFHS didn't come to its senses yet and instructed to ignore this, right?

[ozzy6900]

In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!

One time they asked for feedback. I told them that if they would get rid of differences in the playing rules that have nothing to do with safety in a youth program, umpiring would be more consistent since most umpires do a lot of OBR ball as well.

Rita

[JJ]

The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

JJ

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by JJ

The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

Not sure why an OBR umpire would focus on something that is perfectly legal.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by JJ

The gorilla arm per se is not illegal in OBR, BUT...if the pitcher spins and throws without gaining ground it's a balk. But you knew that.
I only mention it because it was mentioned to me that sometimes a pitcher will have that arm hanging/swinging and the umpire will be so focused on that that he fails to observe the "gaining ground" issue.

JJ

Actually the wording is the same in OBR pertaining to the hand, and arm to the back or side. It's just not enforced the same.

If they enforced everything to the letter, Mike Mussina balked everytime from the set position.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by steven tyler

if they enforced everything to the letter, mike mussina balked everytime from the set position.

+1

jj

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Actually the wording is the same in OBR pertaining to the hand, and arm to the back or side. It's just not enforced the same.

If they enforced everything to the letter, Mike Mussina balked everytime from the set position.

I believe the wording is different. OBR says one hand at his side. It doesn't say which one.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I believe the wording is different. OBR says one hand at his side. It doesn't say which one.

Well, the wording is at least close enough for horse shoes or hand grenades. Does the wording mention the pitching hand? I think we're splitting hairs just a little too fine on this one.

[DG]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

In FED, F1 can hang his arm but if it swings, it's a balk (doesn't matter if the ball is in the hand or the glove.

In OBR it's nothing.

No, FED still hasn't come to its senses yet!

And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.

[cookie]

Originally Posted by DG

And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.

It's in the 2012 Fed Casebook (and 2011): 6.3.1 (P)

6.1.3 SITUATION P: With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in
the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down
slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING: In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by cookie

It's in the 2012 Fed Casebook (and 2011): 6.3.1 (P)

6.1.3 SITUATION P: With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in
the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down
slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING: In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

The explanation in RULING (b) is absolutely insane. F1 hasn't even come set yet. How can movement of his pitching arm be considered the start of his pitching motion?

In addition, well-coached base runners are watching his feet, not his free arm.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by CT1

The explanation in RULING (b) is absolutely insane. F1 hasn't even come set yet. How can movement of his pitching arm be considered the start of his pitching motion?

In addition, well-coached base runners are watching his feet, not his free arm.

A MLB pitcher was balked for this once. He was deemed to have starting to go to his set position

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by DG

And, it is not a rule in FED, but an Interpretation, from 2005, that has not made it into the casebook. I have never seen it called.

Sorry, but you're wrong, DG. Cookie posted the case book cite and the gorilla arm is called here in New Haven County, CT all the time. It's one of the most ridiculous rules so to get rid of it, we call it.