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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 10, 2007, 08:51pm
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ASA needs to get off the fence on Gorilla Gold Grip

ASA needs to rule on it one way or the other.. overtly and in clear language.

NCAA and ISC allow it.

ASA Mens FP, it was allowed at nationals.

So that leaves us in limbo and without a clear directive.

It is the job of ASA to make calls like that.

Maybe some voting member can get ASA to stop ducking this issue.

It would be real nice. If its allowed.. under what circumstances may it be used.. and if its not.. clearly word that it is not allowed.

Situation:

Mens FP - pitcher keeps going to his back pocket before every pitch, a little something is sticking out. Hes an A pitcher with great smoke and movement.

Between innings I nail him to find out whats up .. it turns out to be Gorilla Gold (he shows package).. we go to UIC.. who cowards away just like ASA does on this issue.

UIC of tourney: "Well what do the rules say? I wont rule on it unless protested.. you make the call"

Um.. NOTHING. Thats what they say. Absolutely nothing. No foreign substances on the ball.. except.. this crap supposedly doesnt transfer to the ball hence the reason NCAA allows it... so Mr UIC the rules clearly do not address it.

What was my ruling on the field?

Well with all the friggin pine tar and whatever else these guys seem to miracalize on the ball.. allow it and go on.
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 06:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
ASA needs to rule on it one way or the other.. overtly and in clear language.

NCAA and ISC allow it.

ASA Mens FP, it was allowed at nationals.

So that leaves us in limbo and without a clear directive.

It is the job of ASA to make calls like that.

Maybe some voting member can get ASA to stop ducking this issue.

It would be real nice. If its allowed.. under what circumstances may it be used.. and if its not.. clearly word that it is not allowed.

Situation:

Mens FP - pitcher keeps going to his back pocket before every pitch, a little something is sticking out. Hes an A pitcher with great smoke and movement.

Between innings I nail him to find out whats up .. it turns out to be Gorilla Gold (he shows package).. we go to UIC.. who cowards away just like ASA does on this issue.

UIC of tourney: "Well what do the rules say? I wont rule on it unless protested.. you make the call"

Um.. NOTHING. Thats what they say. Absolutely nothing. No foreign substances on the ball.. except.. this crap supposedly doesnt transfer to the ball hence the reason NCAA allows it... so Mr UIC the rules clearly do not address it.

What was my ruling on the field?

Well with all the friggin pine tar and whatever else these guys seem to miracalize on the ball.. allow it and go on.
Actually, unless addressed prior to the beginning of a tournament, the UIC shouldn't rule on something until there is a protest. So, if you wanted a ruling, rule on it and have the team protest to the UIC.

We all know it is a fact of life that Gorilla Gold will transfer to the ball. Anyone who has seen a ball being used with Gorilla Gold knows this as the ball begins to turn brown from it's application.

I agree, it should be called WHEN it is seen applied to the ball. If the UIC wants to then allow it's use, it is out of the umpire's hands.
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 07:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Actually, unless addressed prior to the beginning of a tournament, the UIC shouldn't rule on something until there is a protest. So, if you wanted a ruling, rule on it and have the team protest to the UIC.

We all know it is a fact of life that Gorilla Gold will transfer to the ball. Anyone who has seen a ball being used with Gorilla Gold knows this as the ball begins to turn brown from it's application.

I agree, it should be called WHEN it is seen applied to the ball. If the UIC wants to then allow it's use, it is out of the umpire's hands.
Well I allowed it, the other team didnt protest (I did let them know) and so everyone was happy, so we went about the game.

This is very inconsistent because of lack of clear directive.
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 08:32am
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It seems to me the problem is addressed in the rules -
Quote:
Rule 6
Section 6. FOREIGN SUBSTANCE/PROTECTIVE WRAPS.
A. A defensive player shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use
any foreign substance upon the ball.
The problem is the manufacturer's (false?) claim that their product does not transfer to the ball. If other rules bodies choose to allow this particular foreign substance to be used, that is their business. But in ASA, if you judge the product to transfer to the ball, it is illegal.
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 09:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
It seems to me the problem is addressed in the rules - The problem is the manufacturer's (false?) claim that their product does not transfer to the ball. If other rules bodies choose to allow this particular foreign substance to be used, that is their business. But in ASA, if you judge the product to transfer to the ball, it is illegal.

Obviously I am aware of that rule.

I'm no scientist.. so I have decided I'm not going to create a rule for the ASA. I had an umpire tell me it was allowed at mens FP nationals last year, so your statement that it is addressed in rules and then quote a rule does nothing, when its being allowed at premier ASA events.
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 09:59am
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I disagree that you either need to be a scientist, that the rule does nothing, and that what was done at one ASA national defines an official interpretation.

Just look at / feel the ball - is there a foreign substance on it? Yes - illegal; no - legal. It is a judgment call; you are not being asked to set a national precedence based on your ruling on the field of one game.
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 11:10am
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I'm having a problem seeing where ASA is unclear on this (except the brief mention that it was allowed for some reason at Men's Nationals). Seems to me that it's clearly NOT allowed. And I've never had a problem disallowing it's use, and have been backed up on protest 100% of the time it came up.

Is this a local thing?
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 11:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem
Well I allowed it,
Why?
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 12:54pm
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It was done at the NC last year in South Bend, IN from the reports I received from an umpire assigned to the tournament. From what I gathered, they were told to remove the balls from the game when realized, but there was no indication that they were to look for boogers.

Much of this may have to do with the competition with ISC which has minimal restrictions on pitchers.
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Old Mon Jun 11, 2007, 08:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
I disagree that you either need to be a scientist, that the rule does nothing, and that what was done at one ASA national defines an official interpretation.

Just look at / feel the ball - is there a foreign substance on it? Yes - illegal; no - legal. It is a judgment call; you are not being asked to set a national precedence based on your ruling on the field of one game.

Sorry, I would need OJ Simpsons laboratory testers to differentiate between all the various substances on a ball at a mens FP tourney, even when they arent overtly using a substance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
I'm having a problem seeing where ASA is unclear on this (except the brief mention that it was allowed for some reason at Men's Nationals). Seems to me that it's clearly NOT allowed. And I've never had a problem disallowing it's use, and have been backed up on protest 100% of the time it came up.

Is this a local thing?
No its not a local thing.. its allowed by ASA at nationals too.


ASA is unclear on it because they ignore it.


If I wanted to OOO this issue, I'm sure I could win a protest. I'm not their mother, I'm an official.. gimme a ruling from ASA (heck, ASA doesnt even have to take a bunch of effort.. a nice monthly clarification on the web would tie this up nice and neatly.)

But nope, ASA is obviously running from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
Why?
Why not?

There is no ruling from ASA on this matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
It was done at the NC last year in South Bend, IN from the reports I received from an umpire assigned to the tournament. From what I gathered, they were told to remove the balls from the game when realized, but there was no indication that they were to look for boogers.

Much of this may have to do with the competition with ISC which has minimal restrictions on pitchers.
Thats putting it nicely..

It was out and out allowed by proxy..

Ie "we dont see it, everyones happy so lets play ball"


Thats about my ruling.
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