What happened to me (Suspended)

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

For those of you that believe I should have ignored the coaches on the field I have just one question. What do you say when a player becomes injured due to these coaches being out of the dugout? There is no reason why they should be on the playing field. They do not need to be and the reason they are is because umpires let them. In my case these were 10 year olds. At this point they have the basic fundamentals and do not need a coach standing beside them giving them directions. I have umpired youth leagues before where a coach is permitted outside the dugout and no issues have arose. The difference though is that those leagues allowed it within their rules and it was 1 coach and not 5. I have also seen a lot of situations develop that would not have had the coaches been in the dugout where they belong.

LL allows multiple coaches outside at this level. However, if the league does not permit this in their rules and wants you to ignore it you might ask if their insurance carrier wanted it that way.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by umpjim

LL allows multiple coaches outside at this level. However, if the league does not permit this in their rules and wants you to ignore it you might ask if their insurance carrier wanted it that way.

I've umpired Little League at the local level all the way up to a World Series tournament. Trust me when I say we do *not* allow this at the minors level.

Perhaps you are using Little League like everyone does to refer to a league that's not affiliated with LL. Or perhaps your local LL allows this. Ours does not, nor does LLI.

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've umpired Little League at the local level all the way up to a World Series tournament. Trust me when I say we do *not* allow this at the minors level.

Perhaps you are using Little League like everyone does to refer to a league that's not affiliated with LL. Or perhaps your local LL allows this. Ours does not, nor does LLI.

I've never seen it either, and the LL rule book is a muddle:

Section XIV

(d) A manager or coach shall not leave the bench or dugout except to confer with a player or an umpire and only after receiving permission from an umpire. (EXCEPTION: In Minor League and Tee Ball, managers and coaches may be on the field for instructional purposes, but shall not assist runners or touch a live ball. At least one adult manager or coach must be in the dugout at all times.)

Rule 2

A COACH is an adult appointed to perform such duties as the manager shall designate. NOTE: if two(2) coaches are
appointed, the second coach may be age 16 years or older.
[MINOR BASEBALL/SOFTBALL: Option may be adopted to allow Manager and coaches on field.]

The definition of MANAGER has similar wording.

So, does this mean that the local Little League has to explicitly adopt the option to have Minors coaches on the fields?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

I've never seen it either, and the LL rule book is a muddle:

Section XIV

(d) A manager or coach shall not leave the bench or dugout except to confer with a player or an umpire and only after receiving permission from an umpire. (EXCEPTION: In Minor League and Tee Ball, managers and coaches may be on the field for instructional purposes, but shall not assist runners or touch a live ball. At least one adult manager or coach must be in the dugout at all times.)

Rule 2

A COACH is an adult appointed to perform such duties as the manager shall designate. NOTE: if two(2) coaches are
appointed, the second coach may be age 16 years or older.
[MINOR BASEBALL/SOFTBALL: Option may be adopted to allow Manager and coaches on field.]

The definition of MANAGER has similar wording.

So, does this mean that the local Little League has to explicitly adopt the option to have Minors coaches on the fields?

Rule 2 in the hard copy does not have that exception but the 2011 RIM (don't have 2012 handy) does:

A COACH is an adult appointed to perform such duties as the manager shall designate. NOTE: if two(2) coaches are
appointed, the second coach may be age 16 years or older. [TBALL: Defensive coaches are permitted on the field for instructional purposes. Coaches are not permitted to touch a live ball but they may instruct players.] [TBALL: Offensive coaches are permitted in the coaching box and at home plate for instruction but they are not permitted to assist base runners.] [MINOR BASEBALL/SOFTBALL: Option may be adopted to allow Manager and coaches on field.]

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Rule 2 in the hard copy does not have that exception but the 2011 RIM (don't have 2012 handy) does:

A COACH is an adult appointed to perform such duties as the manager shall designate. NOTE: if two(2) coaches are
appointed, the second coach may be age 16 years or older. [TBALL: Defensive coaches are permitted on the field for instructional purposes. Coaches are not permitted to touch a live ball but they may instruct players.] [TBALL: Offensive coaches are permitted in the coaching box and at home plate for instruction but they are not permitted to assist base runners.] [MINOR BASEBALL/SOFTBALL: Option may be adopted to allow Manager and coaches on field.]

Yes, I was working fromthe 2012 RIM. My book is not in front of me right now.

So, the hard copy just has the reference in Section XIV. Reading just that, I would infer that LL always permits coaches on the field in Minors. Though I still have yet to see it.

I wonder how my board would decide a protest over this issue.

[kylejt]

In non-competetive LL minors the coaches are allowed, if decreed by the local rules, to be in the field of play with their defensive team. Plus, you've got the variable of the pitching machine, or coach pitch. And, seeing that you always need an adult in the dugout, sometimes three coaches aren't enough.

That said, sitting on buckets outside the dugouts is never allowed in a properly run LL game. But this wasn't LL.

Whenever I'm asked to work at park that's new to me, I always make an advanced visit, to see how things flow. I'm not going to go in green, and start imposing Marshall Law, when it's clear that a lot of rules aren't being followed. I'd just be labeled a dope, and asked not to return.

Gotta know your audience.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LilLeaguer

Yes, I was working fromthe 2012 RIM. My book is not in front of me right now.

So, the hard copy just has the reference in Section XIV. Reading just that, I would infer that LL always permits coaches on the field in Minors. Though I still have yet to see it.

I wonder how my board would decide a protest over this issue.

"Option may be adopted..."

It's a local league decision. Which is irrelevant in the OP because the rules specifically say the coaches are not allowed out of the dugout.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've umpired Little League at the local level all the way up to a World Series tournament. Trust me when I say we do *not* allow this at the minors level.

Perhaps you are using Little League like everyone does to refer to a league that's not affiliated with LL. Or perhaps your local LL allows this. Ours does not, nor does LLI.

You would agree now though, that LLI does allow this?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by umpjim

You would agree now though, that LLI does allow this?

At the local league level, as a league option. Not once All-Star tournaments start. It's never been an option in my area, at least not the leagues I volunteer for (mainly to mentor teenaged umpires) from time to time.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

At the local league level, as a league option. Not once All-Star tournaments start. It's never been an option in my area, at least not the leagues I volunteer for (mainly to mentor teenaged umpires) from time to time.

There are no minors in Allstars.

Rita

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rita C

There are no minors in Allstars.

Rita

I guess the 9-10 district and state we hold every year is what, then?

BTW, the RIM says that it's a local option for coaches to be on the field.

[Caesar's Ghost]

If you're new to the area then ask your partner how the rule is enforced and if it's not enforced as written get it changed from the inside or get a written email from the UIC telling you not to enforce it.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I guess the 9-10 district and state we hold every year is what, then?

BTW, the RIM says that it's a local option for coaches to be on the field.

It's the 9-10 districts. It is not Minors.

The labels "Minor" and "Major" do not apply during Allstar tournaments. It is by age alone.

If a league doesn't have an option stated either way in their local rules on coaches being in the field, then what?

Rita

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've umpired Little League at the local level all the way up to a World Series tournament. Trust me when I say we do *not* allow this at the minors level.

Perhaps you are using Little League like everyone does to refer to a league that's not affiliated with LL. Or perhaps your local LL allows this. Ours does not, nor does LLI.

Regulation XIV(d) A manager or coach shall not leave the bench or dugout except to confer with a player or an umpire and only after receiving permission from an umpire. (EXCEPTION: In Minor League and Tee Ball, managers and coaches may be on the field for instructional purposes, but shall not assist runners or touch a live ball. At least one adult manager or coach must be in the dugout at all times.)

Somehow you missed it. It is most certainly allowed in the Minor level in Little League

Rita