What happened to me (Suspended)

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've umpired Little League at the local level all the way up to a World Series tournament. Trust me when I say we do *not* allow this at the minors level.

Perhaps you are using Little League like everyone does to refer to a league that's not affiliated with LL. Or perhaps your local LL allows this. Ours does not, nor does LLI.

You would agree now though, that LLI does allow this?

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by jicecone

It is one thing not to know, but when you don't know, that you don't know, I can't help you.

Well, I suppose that I don't know that I don't know that I need help. In any case, I was just trying to understand your position.

Thank you,

[johnnyg08]

Personally, I think you were a bit over-officious. That being said, for a board member to come out on the field and tell you how it is....I would've left the game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by umpjim

You would agree now though, that LLI does allow this?

At the local league level, as a league option. Not once All-Star tournaments start. It's never been an option in my area, at least not the leagues I volunteer for (mainly to mentor teenaged umpires) from time to time.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

personally, i think you were a bit over-officious. That being said, for a board member to come out on the field and tell you how it is....i would've left the game.

+1

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jicecone

+1

Personally, I don't care if coaches are out of the dugouts as long as the buckets aren't. I pick my battles and this one is not worth picking.

Kids? That's another story. I expect them to be in the dugout when they aren't supposed to be outside.

[tankmjg24]

You go to work in the morning and return to 4 pages of discussion. Seems to be an interesting topic for everyone.

I have not shed a tear over being suspended, but am more upset that I was not backed by my UIC and that he allowed the board and coaches to walk all over me while I was the one being polite and professional. If they did this to me, what stops them from doing it to another umpire if something does not go their way?

I have 2 question for you though jicecone.

1. You allow the coaches to be outside the dugout. Little Johnny goes running after a foul ball, dives for it, and lands square onto the coach. The result of this Little Johnny has an anterior shoulder dislocation and needs to be taken to the emergency room to have it reduced. Mommy is rather upset and sues the league and the coach who in return state that you were not enforcing their rules and that you allowed the coach outside of the dugout. What is your response?

2. The coaches feel as if 3 outs are not enough in an inning so they decide that for their game they are going to have 4 out innings. Although the rule book says differently, this is what they want to do. Do you allow it

To me, if it is within the rule book it will be enforced. The way attorneys work nowadays I am not leaving myself open for liability. I am always approachable and respectful while umpiring unless a coach decides to be a jerk. I treat others the way that I wish to be treated.

To ozzy6900, I agree that the coaches should not leave the dugout and mingle with fans, however the board feels otherwise. It is permitted for coaches to come and go. The reasoning that they have is that maybe a coach might be late from work or needs to leave for work, or that maybe he has his 5 other kids present at the park and needs to go take care of them.

For the debate on rather Little League allows coaches on the field for Minors, we have to remember what is classified as Minors and what is not. Minor leagues are a developmental league where competition is supposed to be disregarded. The coaches are present to help instruct. We are not talking about 10 year olds that are playing competitive baseball. This rule is present for the leagues that wish to use it for their non competitive coach pitch divisions etc, not their competitive divisions. In international tournament play (whether it be 9/10, 10/11, or 11/12) you will find all the coaches within the dugout as none are permitted on the field of play unless you are a base coach while your team is on offense.

[WWUmp]

The story in the OP is exactly why LL International developed such a complicated set of rules. We all remember the days when playing LL was not much different than the story in the OP, either when we were playing or when our kids were.

I've been doing LL for years, and I don't agree with the suggestion by some that experienced, qualified umpires should do only upper levels of ball. That's like saying, "oh their just 12 year-olds, who gives a $hit." So umpires who thumb their nose at youth ball can get off their high horse in my opinion.

Rules, and the umpires that enforce them, that make for a consistent and level playing field (pardon the pun) are just as important at the youth level as they are at the MLB level, and in some ways even more so. I assure you that LL rules spell out, in great detail at times, exactly what the responsibilities are for the league board, the coaches, the umpires, and even spectators (parents); and who has what jurisdiction and what authority. And local leagues are not allowed (by rule) to circumvent the rules unless the rules explicitly allow them to do so (usually minor level and below). LLI has made it so (agree with it or not) if there is a disagreement, consult the rules. If the local league ignores the rules then get out of the league, unless you’re good with it.

All that said, I would not have contributed to the ugliness that developed in the OP. I don’t think kids and parents need that, nor is it my job as an umpire to dictate to the board how to run their league. I would have left the game never to return.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Huh? Why is it not his decision to make?

Deciding when a player is mature enough to not have coach assistance? Really? You think that's a decsion an umpire should be making?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

What is there not to get?

It's THEIR LEAGUE! Not yours. They've made it very clear how they want their rules deal with. Do it their way or MOVE ON. Those are your only choices, and it appears they have helped you decide.

Face reality and quit whining.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by WWUmp

The story in the OP is exactly why LL International developed such a complicated set of rules. We all remember the days when playing LL was not much different than the story in the OP, either when we were playing or when our kids were.

I've been doing LL for years, and I don't agree with the suggestion by some that experienced, qualified umpires should do only upper levels of ball. That's like saying, "oh their just 12 year-olds, who gives a $hit." So umpires who thumb their nose at youth ball can get off their high horse in my opinion.

I work LL as a volunteer late in the summer, but I do not begrudge anyone who simply refuses to work lower levels of baseball. We all make choices in what we want to work. We should spend our time working exactly what we *want* to work -- nobody, IMO, owes any particular level any of their time.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Personally, I think you were a bit over-officious. That being said, for a board member to come out on the field and tell you how it is....I would've left the game.

He was not being over officious, he was trying to work the game as it should have been worked. What I would advise him to do next time, is to let go of the need to be right, and get the game over ASAP and never go back.

Had these same things happened to me, I would have been gone, like many other's here, as soon as that over bearing self absorbed league coordinator set foot on the field.

And BTW, coaches stopped needing to be on the field after Tball, these are 10 year old kids, and when I was coaching 10 year old's that were good enough made it to majors, the rest were in minors and coaches were NOT allowed on the field, except to coach first or third. So, I don't know where you guys are where 10 year old kids need adult assistance to simply play the game.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

I have 2 question for you though jicecone.

1. You allow the coaches to be outside the dugout. Little Johnny goes running after a foul ball, dives for it, and lands square onto the coach. The result of this Little Johnny has an anterior shoulder dislocation and needs to be taken to the emergency room to have it reduced. Mommy is rather upset and sues the league and the coach who in return state that you were not enforcing their rules and that you allowed the coach outside of the dugout. What is your response?

2. The coaches feel as if 3 outs are not enough in an inning so they decide that for their game they are going to have 4 out innings. Although the rule book says differently, this is what they want to do. Do you allow it

First of all, to you and the rest of the people that truly believe 10 yr old baseball is serious stuff, well I am glad you weren't my Dad. What are you guys smoking? And we wonder why our youth of today has mental problem . They are pushed beyond there capacities well before they are mentally and even sometimes physically capable.

Now for your questions Tank. I will answer both at the same time.

YOUR DAM RIGHT I WOULD!

And if I was your assignor, you would be lucky if I let you hold my indicator, that I don't even use anymore.

Have a nice day.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Again, he was enforcing THEIR rules, not refusing to enforce their rules. They are the ones who were trying to circumvent their own set of local playing rules by allowing coaches out of the dugout. If they wanted an exception to their own rule, they should have had that in writing as well. Stupid rule to start with, but they are the ones who WROTE it. Better off without this set of losers. I would have handed them the baseballs and said see ya when some league official thought he had more power than the Umpire in Chief of the baseball game. Ludicrous.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I've umpired Little League at the local level all the way up to a World Series tournament. Trust me when I say we do *not* allow this at the minors level.

Perhaps you are using Little League like everyone does to refer to a league that's not affiliated with LL. Or perhaps your local LL allows this. Ours does not, nor does LLI.

Regulation XIV(d) A manager or coach shall not leave the bench or dugout except to confer with a player or an umpire and only after receiving permission from an umpire. (EXCEPTION: In Minor League and Tee Ball, managers and coaches may be on the field for instructional purposes, but shall not assist runners or touch a live ball. At least one adult manager or coach must be in the dugout at all times.)

Somehow you missed it. It is most certainly allowed in the Minor level in Little League

Rita