Canada/US difference

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Sometimes officials assume way too much authority than explictly given

Expound on this. What do you mean?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

They play OBR-based in Canada so the FED prohibition would be strange to them.

Exactly. That's why I posted it. The Canadian coaches were surprised that they were run, and the FED rule might explain it.

That said, I also agree that tossing anyone just for speaking is over the top. Perhaps that wasn't the entire story...

[RPatrino]

I feel that anyone who refuses to even talk to an assistant coach is being a pompous fool. But that's just me, and I have gotten an awful lot of mileage by being civil to everyone on the field. They get what they give though.

Example (assistant coach):

Assistant Coach : Wow, that was a close play Bob.
Me: Sure was John, it was bang bang, from where I was I saw him out.

That's where this discussion will end.

Example ( Head Coach):

Head Coach: Bob, for cryin' out loud, he missed the tag by 2 feet.
Me: Ya, John, from where you were, it might have looked that way.
HC: Could you maybe ask Sammy for help? Damn that was brutal.
Me: No John, that's my call all the way, I saw him out, he got tagged on the hand reaching for 2nd.

That's where THIS discussion will end.

Maybe the word 'speak' is being confused with 'discuss' or 'dispute'.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I feel that anyone who refuses to even talk to an assistant coach is being a pompous fool. But that's just me, and I have gotten an awful lot of mileage by being civil to everyone on the field. They get what they give though.

Example (assistant coach):

Assistant Coach : Wow, that was a close play Bob.
Me: Sure was John, it was bang bang, from where I was I saw him out.

That's where this discussion will end.

Example ( Head Coach):

Head Coach: Bob, for cryin' out loud, he missed the tag by 2 feet.
Me: Ya, John, from where you were, it might have looked that way.
HC: Could you maybe ask Sammy for help? Damn that was brutal.
Me: No John, that's my call all the way, I saw him out, he got tagged on the hand reaching for 2nd.

That's where THIS discussion will end.

Maybe the word 'speak' is being confused with 'discuss' or 'dispute'.

Unfortunately, many times it's the other way around; with the Head Coach calmly commenting and the assistant doing the for cryin' out loud act. No, you don't eject an assistant for calmly, rationally, and in passing questioning the call. What you do eject for is a dumbass assistant that flies into a rage, doesn't buy time for his manager to arrive, and acts like he is the one running the show on the field. I totally agree with Rich Ives that it is bad game management to do the instant ejection the moment the assistant coach opens his mouth. I don't want to give the guy an inferiority complex, I just want him to run along and get his manager to do the arguing on the call. If he can manage to talk nicely until the head honcho arrives, then cool. Otherwise he is going to be ejected after he is warned. The OP, if I am reading it right, did not do a very good job of game management. IMO. The coach wasn't even allowed to open his mouth before getting run, and that sounds pretty fishy to me.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Unfortunately, many times it's the other way around; with the Head Coach calmly commenting and the assistant doing the for cryin' out loud act. No, you don't eject an assistant for calmly, rationally, and in passing questioning the call. What you do eject for is a dumbass assistant that flies into a rage, doesn't buy time for his manager to arrive, and acts like he is the one running the show on the field. I totally agree with Rich Ives that it is bad game management to do the instant ejection the moment the assistant coach opens his mouth. I don't want to give the guy an inferiority complex, I just want him to run along and get his manager to do the arguing on the call. If he can manage to talk nicely until the head honcho arrives, then cool. Otherwise he is going to be ejected after he is warned. The OP, if I am reading it right, did not do a very good job of game management. IMO. The coach wasn't even allowed to open his mouth before getting run, and that sounds pretty fishy to me.

It's why I said that I wonder if there's something missing. I haven't ejected a coach in 4 years and I guarantee that some assistants have talked to me.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Unfortunately, many times it's the other way around; with the Head Coach calmly commenting and the assistant doing the for cryin' out loud act. No, you don't eject an assistant for calmly, rationally, and in passing questioning the call. What you do eject for is a dumbass assistant that flies into a rage, doesn't buy time for his manager to arrive, and acts like he is the one running the show on the field. I totally agree with Rich Ives that it is bad game management to do the instant ejection the moment the assistant coach opens his mouth. I don't want to give the guy an inferiority complex, I just want him to run along and get his manager to do the arguing on the call. If he can manage to talk nicely until the head honcho arrives, then cool. Otherwise he is going to be ejected after he is warned. The OP, if I am reading it right, did not do a very good job of game management. IMO. The coach wasn't even allowed to open his mouth before getting run, and that sounds pretty fishy to me.

I am inclined to eject ANYONE who flies into a rage, and doesn't calm down within about a nano-second and conduct themselves in a rational and sportsmanlike manner.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Exactly. That's why I posted it. The Canadian coaches were surprised that they were run, and the FED rule might explain it.

That said, I also agree that tossing anyone just for speaking is over the top. Perhaps that wasn't the entire story...

Sorry about taking so long to respond but having issues responding for some reason. It simply times out and I had to use a different computer!!!!!

I wasn't there and am only going by what another assistant told me but he did say that the other assistant didn't even open his mouth yet and was tossed and when the manager asked why the assistant was tossed, he was told that only the manager was allowed to speak to the umpires.

They didn't know the FED rule before the tournament but definitely knew it after that ejection!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by tibear

Sorry about taking so long to respond but having issues responding for some reason. It simply times out and I had to use a different computer!!!!!

I wasn't there and am only going by what another assistant told me but he did say that the other assistant didn't even open his mouth yet and was tossed and when the manager asked why the assistant was tossed, he was told that only the manager was allowed to speak to the umpires.

They didn't know the FED rule before the tournament but definitely knew it after that ejection!

That's NOT the FED rule. No rule prohibits any participant from speaking to umpires. The FED rule prohibits assistant/base coaches from leaving their position in order to argue a call.

Sounds as if some umpires might be taking advantage of the rule to make it mean something else.

[DG]

Wrong reaction for FED rules, wrong reaction for an umpire who has people skills.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by Jay R

First of all, I'm Canadian eh! Is this really an American thing or is there more to the story? A base umpire can't speak to an umpire?

It may be an American thing. Base umpires, plate umpires, and umpires of all kind speak to each other all the time

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

It may be an American thing. Base umpires, plate umpires, and umpires of all kind speak to each other all the time

Don't bother...I don't think he even knows what he said wrong in the sentence.