Interference?

[Justme561]

5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—

(f) A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder other than the pitcher; runners advance, if forced. If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, no other infielder has a chance to make a play on the ball and the ball touches a runner immediately behind the infielder that the ball went through, or by, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not declare the runner out. If a fair ball touches a runner after being deflected by an infielder, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not declare the runner out;

Rule 5.09(f) Comment: If a fair ball touches an umpire working in the infield after it has bounded past, or over, the pitcher, it is a dead ball. If a batted ball is deflected by a fielder in fair territory and hits a runner or an umpire while still in flight and then caught by an infielder it shall not be a catch, but the ball shall remain in play.

__________________________________________________ _____________

7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when—

(k) A fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches the runner after having been deflected by a fielder, the umpire shall not declare the runner out for being touched by a batted ball. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the fielder, and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner deliberately and intentionally kicks such a batted ball on which the infielder has missed a play, then the runner shall be called out for interference.

PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE: The runner is out and the ball is dead.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Pretty sure you have the wrong rule reference. I could be wrong, but I think that rule is for the ball passing a fielder and hitting a runner.

Under NCAA, even if the pitcher deflects it and it hits a runner, it is alive and you play it.

The NCAA had this question on the test this year and they screwed it up. I answered it correctly and they said it was wrong. We went over it extensively on one of the other forums earlier this spring.

8.2.g states..If a fair ball touches a base runner in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed all infielders, other than the pitcher, the ball is dead, the runner is out and the batter-runner is awarded first base

The way I am interpreting this is, once the ball touches F3 as in the OP, the ball is live and in play. If the ball had passed F3 and F2 was able to make a play, INT. And notice, other than the pitcher. So if the batted ball is touched by the pitcher and hits the runner, INT IF it has not passed all fielders and they could make a play.

So, for the OP,

MLB-NO
NCAA-NO
NFHS-YES(go figure)

[Matt]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

8.2.g states..If a fair ball touches a base runner in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed all infielders, other than the pitcher, the ball is dead, the runner is out and the batter-runner is awarded first base

The way I am interpreting this is, once the ball touches F3 as in the OP, the ball is live and in play. If the ball had passed F3 and F2 was able to make a play, INT. And notice, other than the pitcher. So if the batted ball is touched by the pitcher and hits the runner, INT IF it has not passed all fielders and they could make a play.

Incorrect. The clause "other than the pitcher" modifies "passed all infielders." It has nothing to do with touching.

Originally Posted by thumpferee

So, for the OP,

MLB-NO
NCAA-NO
NFHS-YES(go figure)

Incorrect. This is not INT in FED.

[dash_riprock]

1. Batted ball touches a fielder (including the pitcher), then touches a runner - INT only if intentional (another fielder having or not having a play is irrelevant).

2. Batted ball passes by or through a fielder (other than the pitcher) untouched then touches runner - INT only if intentional and/or another fielder has a play.

In OBR, the ball must pass directly by or through the fielder for the runner to be potentially immune from INT. FED and NCAA are more lenient (the ball passing the fielder is good enough). Other than that, all codes agree.

[SAump]

Also a runner must attempt to avoid a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball, even if the ball was deflected by another fielder.

It is alive and in play despite the fact that another infielder may be in position to field the ball.

This is not the case if a fielder is making a play on the ball! The runner must avoid the fielder. If the runner interferes with the fielder making a play, the runner is declared out.

Otherwise, the ball is still live and in play.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

Also a runner must attempt to avoid a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball, even if the ball was deflected by another fielder.

Incorrect. For correct answer, see all the other posts in thread.

*Edited to say: I got it wrong. You had it right S.A. My apologies.*

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Incorrect. For correct answer, see all the other posts in thread.

That actually is correct for OBR, per MLBUM 6.4.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Matt

That actually is correct for OBR, per MLBUM 6.4.

Yes, you are right. Thank you. He does have to avoid the fielder in either case.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

8.2.g states..If a fair ball touches a base runner in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed all infielders, other than the pitcher, the ball is dead, the runner is out and the batter-runner is awarded first base

The way I am interpreting this is, once the ball touches F3 as in the OP, the ball is live and in play. If the ball had passed F3 and F2 was able to make a play, INT. And notice, other than the pitcher. So if the batted ball is touched by the pitcher and hits the runner, INT IF it has not passed all fielders and they could make a play.

So, for the OP,

MLB-NO
NCAA-NO
NFHS-YES(go figure)

You are interpreting it wrong. Once the ball touches a fielder, it can hit a runner and you play it.

You need to separate this rule from the rule about the ball passing a fielder then hitting a runner. They are different.

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

1. Batted ball touches a fielder (including the pitcher), then touches a runner - INT only if intentional (another fielder having or not having a play is irrelevant).

2. Batted ball passes by or through a fielder (other than the pitcher) untouched then touches runner - INT only if intentional and/or another fielder has a play.

In OBR, the ball must pass directly by or through the fielder for the runner to be potentially immune from INT. FED and NCAA are more lenient (the ball passing the fielder is good enough). Other than that, all codes agree.

This is right on.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by sandiegosteve

*edited to say: I got it wrong.

big time!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

big time!

Thanks for piling on.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Thanks for piling on.

I was wondering where you were going with that.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I was wondering where you were going with that.

I drove it right into the ditch.

[JJ]

I submitted the play to the NFHS and here's their "official" response -

"I ran your situation by a few committee members and got a consensus that since it was touched by the infielder, it is nothing, ball stays in play and what happens is what happens. Had the ball gotten by the first baseman, untouched, and then hit the base runner with the second baseman in position to make a play, we would then have interference."

Looks like the deflection was the key, so despite what the FED books say about another fielder having a chance to make a play, this situation is NOT considered interference by the runner.

JJ

[CT1]

Common sense tells me that we shouldn't hold a runner responsible for being hit by a deflected ball.

If he does something intentional after the deflection, that's another story.