runner returned to first after foul ball

[upprdeck]

runners on first and third, runner on first takes off , pitcher is watching runner on 3rd and holds the ball. runner reaches and rounds 2nd base, pitcher then starts the motion to throw home.

ball is then fouled off and runner is told to return to first.

just doesnt seem right to penalize the offense

[mbyron]

He gets to stay at 2B.

[upprdeck]

that is what i would have argued as well, i just wasnt sure where in the rule book it was covered.. i have never seen a runner get that far off a base before a pitch..

[teccan9nja]

If the runner had got to second before the pitch was released, I'd say he had stolen second and return him there. My thought is where you are when the pitch is released is where you go back to on a foul ball.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by teccan9nja

If the runner had got to second before the pitch was released, I'd say he had stolen second and return him there. My thought is where you are when the pitch is released is where you go back to on a foul ball.

If the runner attains the base before the time the pitcher starts his motion. He has legally acquired that base. The release of the pitch is non-relevant in this scenario.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by teccan9nja

If the runner had got to second before the pitch was released, I'd say he had stolen second and return him there. My thought is where you are when the pitch is released is where you go back to on a foul ball.

Your "thought" is irrelevant. And wrong. What's the definition? Cite the rule.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by teccan9nja

If the runner had got to second before the pitch was released, I'd say he had stolen second and return him there. My thought is where you are when the pitch is released is where you go back to on a foul ball.

It's where you were at the time of the pitch.

The time of the pitch is when the pitcher's movements/motion commit him to pitch.

In this case the runner stole second BUT it was because he got there before the time of the pitch.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

If the runner attains the base before the time the pitcher starts his motion. He has legally acquired that base. The release of the pitch is non-relevant in this scenario.

The Time of the Pitch is not necessarily the time he starts his motion. In this case, the pitcher came to the Set Position prior to R1 attaining 2nd, but the TOP did not occur until he committed to home plate, which is why the runner got to stay at 2nd. Had it been the Windup Position, then the TOP would be when he started his motion, and R1 would have had to return to 1st.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The Time of the Pitch is not necessarily the time he starts his motion. In this case, the pitcher came to the Set Position prior to R1 attaining 2nd, but the TOP did not occur until he committed to home plate, which is why the runner got to stay at 2nd. Had it been the Windup Position, then the TOP would be when he started his motion, and R1 would have had to return to 1st.

Why is windup different?

5.7 TIME OF PITCH
The time of pitch is defined as the moment the pitcher's movements commit him to deliver the
ball to the batter.

In a windup position, this is defined as the moment the pitcher begins the natural movement
associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter (i.e., the start of his windup or delivery).

From a set position, this is defined as the moment the pitcher begins the natural movement
associated with his delivery of the ball after the pitcher has come set with both hands together
in front of his body.

If the motion is associated with his delivery it is the start.

[thumpferee]

Where does it say in the OP pitcher was in wind-up or stretch? Says pitcher then starts his MOTION to throw home.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

Where does it say in the OP pitcher was in wind-up or stretch? Says pitcher then starts his MOTION to throw home.

Don't feed the troll............................

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Don't feed the troll............................

Lol, you didn't just say that...!

Steve said in this situation, the pitcher came set. He could have been in the wind-up and the poster was describing his motion forward to pitch. I was picturing a slow wind-up.

Was just a thought

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Why is windup different?

5.7 TIME OF PITCH
The time of pitch is defined as the moment the pitcher's movements commit him to deliver the
ball to the batter.

In a windup position, this is defined as the moment the pitcher begins the natural movement
associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter (i.e., the start of his windup or delivery).

From a set position, this is defined as the moment the pitcher begins the natural movement
associated with his delivery of the ball after the pitcher has come set with both hands together
in front of his body.

If the motion is associated with his delivery it is the start.

I was not disagreeing with whatshisname, I was merely adding to his comment, presenting a different scenario:

Here is what whatshisname said: If the runner attains the base before the time the pitcher starts his motion. He has legally acquired that base. The release of the pitch is non-relevant in this scenario.

My point was that the start of the motion for the Set position is when the pitcher brings his hands together, not when he delivers the ball. So, in the Set Position, R1 could stay at 2nd base, even if he arrived there AFTER the pitcher had started his motion, but BEFORE the TOP. So, his post should have read like this: If the runner attains the base before the Time of the Pitch. He has legally acquired that base. The release of the pitch is non-relevant in this scenario.

In the Set the start of the motion does not equal the TOP.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I was not disagreeing with whatshisname, I was merely adding to his comment, presenting a different scenario:

Here is what whatshisname said: If the runner attains the base before the time the pitcher starts his motion. He has legally acquired that base. The release of the pitch is non-relevant in this scenario.

My point was that the start of the motion for the Set position is when the pitcher brings his hands together, not when he delivers the ball. So, in the Set Position, R1 could stay at 2nd base, even if he arrived there AFTER the pitcher had started his motion, but BEFORE the TOP. So, his post should have read like this: If the runner attains the base before the Time of the Pitch. He has legally acquired that base. The release of the pitch is non-relevant in this scenario.

In the Set the start of the motion does not equal the TOP.

OK - gotcha