Runner interfering with a foul ball

akalsey · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Aug 15, 2004, 10:57pm

What, if any, call should be made in the following...

R3, batter hits a grounder down the third base line. While the ball is foul but heading toward fair territory, R3 intentionally touches the ball to prevent it from rolling fair.

cbfoulds · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 12:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
What, if any, call should be made in the following...

R3, batter hits a grounder down the third base line. While the ball is foul but heading toward fair territory, R3 intentionally touches the ball to prevent it from rolling fair.

7.09(c): runner "deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner;" - runner is out and ball is dead.

--Carter

Atl Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 07:50am

Carter has given you the rule. In practical terms, if the ball has ANY chance of becoming fair, the runner is out. If the ball is bounding foul and he is picking it up to give it back to the pitcher, don't get overly officious and start calling outs just becasue he touched a foul ball. Depending on the circumstances, I still might tell him to leave it alone.

But I am also giving the benefit of the doubt to the defense, as the runner should be leaving the ball alone. If there is a chance it could become fair, R3 is out.

akalsey · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 10:00am

See I knew it was in there, but when challenged I couldn't recall the rule. So I just looked it up in both OBR and the current LL rule book and discovered that the LL rule book says specifically that the batter is out when deflecting a foul ball, making no mention of a runner. Even though LL modifies many OBR rules, it seems odd to me that they'd choose this one.

Also for anyone stumbling across this thread later, it should be noted that unlike 7.08(f) (which states that a runner is out if he is touched by a batted fair ball) 7.09(c) requires intent. If R3 is pegged by a line drive in foul territory, he's not out. if he sticks his hand up and knocks that drive down, he is.

DownTownTonyBrown · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 10:03am

Unless I see something intentional, it is just going to be a foul ball. That's why the runner is out there in foul territory - so if he gets hit with a batted ball it is simply dead and foul.

If the runner INTENTIONALLY interferes with a possible/potential play, then okay, I'll call a dead ball and an out... but this is not a likely situation in any of the games I've worked.

cbfoulds · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 11:17am

Huh? Didn't the original post say that R3 "intentionally" deflected the ball to "prevent it rolling fair"? Granted, I've never had anyone boneheaded enough to try that [yet], but I am sure it will happen in one of my games eventually.

Now, like AtlBlue, if he "deflects" a foul [on the ground or in the air] which has no chance of becoming fair or being played on, I've got nothin' but a foul ball: but let's not forget to read what the original question was, OK?

--Carter

DownTownTonyBrown · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 11:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by cbfoulds
Huh? Didn't the original post say that R3 "intentionally" deflected the ball to "prevent it rolling fair"? Granted, I've never had anyone boneheaded enough to try that [yet], but I am sure it will happen in one of my games eventually.

Now, like AtlBlue, if he "deflects" a foul [on the ground or in the air] which has no chance of becoming fair or being played on, I've got nothin' but a foul ball: but let's not forget to read what the original question was, OK?

--Carter

You've made the mistake of thinking my post was only directed at the original post. Your response would be well taken if there were no other post between the original and mine. However, there are a couple, and the "thread" seemed to be drifting away from the fact that this was 'originally' an intentional deflection. My post by itself will stand alone. It also addresses the original post and those other posts made prior to mine.

You posting of an applicable rule doesn't meet both situations of intentional and non-intentional because it doesn't say anything about intentionally deflecting a ball that might become fair. As you have quoted it, it says you deflect a foul ball and you are out.

7.09(c): runner "deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner;" - runner is out and ball is dead.

Sooo lawyer dude... it is Monday. And my brain may not be fully operational yet.

cbfoulds · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 11:40am

originally posted by DownTownTonyBrownSooo lawyer dude... it is Monday. And my brain may not be fully operational yet. Mine too.
--Carter

Jim Porter · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Aug 16, 2004, 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey
See I knew it was in there, but when challenged I couldn't recall the rule. So I just looked it up in both OBR and the current LL rule book and discovered that the LL rule book says specifically that the batter is out when deflecting a foul ball, making no mention of a runner. Even though LL modifies many OBR rules, it seems odd to me that they'd choose this one.

The version of the OBR that Little League Rules are based on is quite old. Because of that, many modern updates and clarifications aren't in the Little League book. That is one of them. You'll find many examples the more you look.