Fake Tag = Ejection

[CT1]

Originally Posted by blueump

I suppose the answer you would get from the MHSAA is that they simply don't want to get involved.

Or maybe you would hear "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Coaches & players who know what the consequences are and still get ejected don't garner any sympathy from me.

[scarolinablue]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm glad I no longer live in a place where HS games start at 3

+1

I do have a day job, and couldn't do any HS ball if they started in the mid-afternoon. In these parts, varsity starts anywhere from 6 to 7:30 pm.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by blueump

I suppose the answer you would get from the MHSAA is that they simply don't want to get involved. A ruling is a ruling. The policy is that if an ejection happens, for whatever reason, the ejected player or coach misses the remainder of games that day and the next scheduled date. That's been the policy for as long as I've been umping. Another reason I like the ability to restrict to the dugout when necessary.

I never think of after-game consequences to an ejection. If the player/coach doesn't want to get suspended for four games -- here's a thought -- don't get ejected in the first place.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I never think of after-game consequences to an ejection. If the player/coach doesn't want to get suspended for four games -- here's a thought -- don't get ejected in the first place.

Sure ... but what this kid (apparently) did didn't warrant the ejection in the first place. Hence the problem.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sure ... but what this kid (apparently) did didn't warrant the ejection in the first place. Hence the problem.

I agree, which was the entire point of the post.

If an umpire ejects a player in Michigan for their helmet falling off, or because they have a white glove, or even because their last name starts with a Z...there is nothing a player or school can do. There is no review process, there is no appeal - heck the umpire apparently doesn't even need to file a report, even though its supposed to be required! The kid misses games despite the reasoning. Unfortunately this is even the case when it comes to state tournament time.

This policy opens up a big can of worms, I know; and I don't know if I have all the answers. It gives an awful lot of "power" to an umpire to not only control one specific game, but potentially affect games in the future. It's a tough lesson learned for the kid, that's for sure!

[blueump]

Originally Posted by CT1

Or maybe you would hear "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

Coaches & players who know what the consequences are and still get ejected don't garner any sympathy from me.

Coaches and players that violate an ejectable rule should face the consequences without complaint. Its the ones that get ejected without just cause or merit that is up for discussion here.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by blueump

If an umpire ejects a player in Michigan for their helmet falling off, or because they have a white glove, or even because their last name starts with a Z...there is nothing a player or school can do. There is no review process, there is no appeal - heck the umpire apparently doesn't even need to file a report, even though its supposed to be required! The kid misses games despite the reasoning. Unfortunately this is even the case when it comes to state tournament time.

With such irresponsible oversight by the state, I'm amazed anyone bothers undertaking the suspensions.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by blueump

I agree, which was the entire point of the post.

If an umpire ejects a player in Michigan for their helmet falling off, or because they have a white glove, or even because their last name starts with a Z...there is nothing a player or school can do. There is no review process, there is no appeal - heck the umpire apparently doesn't even need to file a report, even though its supposed to be required! The kid misses games despite the reasoning. Unfortunately this is even the case when it comes to state tournament time.

This policy opens up a big can of worms, I know; and I don't know if I have all the answers. It gives an awful lot of "power" to an umpire to not only control one specific game, but potentially affect games in the future. It's a tough lesson learned for the kid, that's for sure!

It sounds like the only recourse is a temporary injunction. Has that happened to your knowledge?

BTW-I've often wondered where the term can of worms came from. I suppose it came from catching and putting worms in a coffee can. Gotta love all those manure piles our neighboring farmer had on his place.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It sounds like the only recourse is a temporary injunction. Has that happened to your knowledge?

Temporary injunction? The MHSAA handbook clearly states:

"...protest is not allowed by the MHSAA when it is based on judgment decisions of officials or on misinterpretation or misapplication of playing rules."

"Pursuant to Item No. 2 of the Due Process Procedure (p. 19) and consistent with Interpretation 280, there is no appeal of a penalty that automatically results in a suspension either from the next day of competition or the
MHSAA tournament. Neither an ejection by an official nor the resulting suspension, either for the next day of competition or the entire MHSAA tournament, is reviewable by MHSAA staff, Executive Committee or Representative Council."

Nothing will be reviewed, nothing will be changed...for ANY reason - with or without a timely report from the umpire involved. Even if the umpire says in his report "I screwed up", the player's suspension stands. A court will not overturn it because everyone that plays as a MHSAA member has agreed to play under their rulings.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by blueump

Temporary injunction? The MHSAA handbook clearly states:

"...protest is not allowed by the MHSAA when it is based on judgment decisions of officials or on misinterpretation or misapplication of playing rules."

"Pursuant to Item No. 2 of the Due Process Procedure (p. 19) and consistent with Interpretation 280, there is no appeal of a penalty that automatically results in a suspension either from the next day of competition or the
MHSAA tournament. Neither an ejection by an official nor the resulting suspension, either for the next day of competition or the entire MHSAA tournament, is reviewable by MHSAA staff, Executive Committee or Representative Council."

Nothing will be reviewed, nothing will be changed...for ANY reason - with or without a timely report from the umpire involved. Even if the umpire says in his report "I screwed up", the player's suspension stands. A court will not overturn it because everyone that plays as a MHSAA member has agreed to play under their rulings.

So what's to discuss then? Seems like everyone's agreed to these conditions.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

So what's to discuss then? Seems like everyone's agreed to these conditions.

True. I wonder what the MHSAA does, besides make up inequitable rules. They clearly can't be bothered to rectify simple errors.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

BTW-I've often wondered where the term can of worms came from. I suppose it came from catching and putting worms in a coffee can. Gotta love all those manure piles our neighboring farmer had on his place.

I think you are right on track with this. Here are links which seem to confirm this:

World Wide Words: Can of worms

Where did the expression "You've opened a can of worms" come from? - Yahoo! Answers

What does It Mean to "Open a Can of Worms"?