Proper mechanics - FED obstruction

[rbmartin]

FED ruleset. 2 umpires. I am HP. Runner on 2nd, no outs. Batter hits cleanly to center, throw coming to F2 from F8. As ball is on flight, runner slides (no MC) and IMO is obstructed by F2, who then catches the throw and applies tag to runner before he touches plate. F2 then immediately throws to 2nd in an attempt to get BR advancing to 2nd. Tag is sucessful at 2nd.

My call is : obstruction, run counts.

My question is , exactly what should be my signals and verbalization for this call?

[mbyron]

Good question. You have to call this in a way that does not deny the defense their play on the other runner. As you know, the ball remains live here, and if you come up screaming obstruction everyone's going to stop.

The FED manual, if you're using that, encourages umpires to use the delayed dead ball mechanic (fist held out to the side). I'm probably saying "That's obstruction," not too loud, and holding my fist out during the throw down to 2B. That signals that I've got something -- and explains why I'm not signalling safe or out -- but I'm not shouting or killing the play.

At the end of playing action, kill it and enforce the award. Make sure both scorekeepers are aware of your call.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Good question. You have to call this in a way that does not deny the defense their play on the other runner. As you know, the ball remains live here, and if you come up screaming obstruction everyone's going to stop.

The FED manual, if you're using that, encourages umpires to use the delayed dead ball mechanic (fist held out to the side). I'm probably saying "That's obstruction," not too loud, and holding my fist out during the throw down to 2B. That signals that I've got something -- and explains why I'm not signalling safe or out -- but I'm not shouting or killing the play.

At the end of playing action, kill it and enforce the award. Make sure both scorekeepers are aware of your call.

and of course get ready to eject the coach who don't understand the rules etc,.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The FED manual, if you're using that, encourages umpires to use the delayed dead ball mechanic (fist held out to the side). I'm probably saying "That's obstruction," not too loud, and holding my fist out during the throw down to 2B. That signals that I've got something -- and explains why I'm not signalling safe or out -- but I'm not shouting or killing the play.

At the end of playing action, kill it and enforce the award. Make sure both scorekeepers are aware of your call.

So I should make neither a safe nor an out signal...only the DDB sign and verbalize "obstruction!"?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

So I should make neither a safe nor an out signal...only the DDB sign and verbalize "obstruction!"?

When all is done, you say "Count the run" and point at the plate. Make sure both dugouts see you doing this. This automatically means that the runner was safe.

I do not agree with the FED "sticking your arm out" mechanic. "That's Obstruction" while pointing with the left hand is enough. If F2 turns in my direction, I am saying "Play on, play on" so he knows the ball is not dead.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I do not agree with the FED "sticking your arm out" mechanic. "That's Obstruction" while pointing with the left hand is enough. If F2 turns in my direction, I am saying "Play on, play on" so he knows the ball is not dead.

It seems like the FED DDB signal could easily be mis-interpreted as an out signal.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I find it hard to believe that anybody would mistake the NFHS Delayed Dead Ball Signal for the Outsignal.

I am not computer literate enough to post pictures of the two signals but if one goes to the Page 36 of the 2011 and 2012 NFHS Baseball Umpires Manual one will see that the Delayed Dead Ball Signal (Signal D) is given with the Left Arm and Fist held straight out from the shoulder parallel to the ground, while the Out Signal (Signal E) is given with the Right Arm (perpendicular to the ground) and Fist held up above the Umpire's head. The signals are completely different in look, and even though I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other I can tell the difference.

The Umpire just has to momentarily give the DDB Signal while pointing with his Right hand toward where the Obstruction occured while saying (load enough for the players involved): "That's obsturction." Nothing more needs to be said except for Safe or Out on the play. He should not say play on becuase he has not said anything that would cause the ball to become dead such as: Dead Ball!! or Time!! or Foul Ball!! Players should know that they should continue to play until they here one of those three phrases, to say "Play On" is coaching.

RBMartin: Yes you should make a decision as to whether F2 tagged R1 out at HP. That does not stop play. Since you had Obstruction, you will call Time after all play as ceased, in your case, the Out on B2/R2 at 2B, and then award R1 HP for F2's Obstruction.

MTD, Sr.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

RBMartin: Yes you should make a decision as to whether F2 tagged R1 out at HP. That does not stop play. Since you had Obstruction, you will call Time after all play as ceased, in your case, the Out on B2/R2 at 2B, and then award R1 HP for F2's Obstruction.

MTD, Sr.

My question was do I signal that (irrelevant) decision or is my only visable signal the DDB?
I'm certainly not killing the play until all action is completed.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

My question was do I signal that (irrelevant) decision or is my only visable signal the DDB?
I'm certainly not killing the play until all action is completed.

Yes, call R1 out from the tag by F2 and signal the out also, but nothing more until after all play has stopped, and in your case that was the tag out at 2B on B2/R2.

MTD, Sr.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

My question was do I signal that (irrelevant) decision or is my only visable signal the DDB?
I'm certainly not killing the play until all action is completed.

I use the Bob Jenkins method: I give the DDB signal, then drop it. I don't run around the field with my fist out.

[PeteBooth]

I would not call R2 out at the plate. I would signal safe

Why!

Suppose there were 2 outs and "other" runners on base as in this case. Once you signal out and it is the third out, play stops.

It is much easier to explain to the defense why you signalled the runner safe even though F2 appled the tag then it is to try and unravel the mess that follows after you called an obstructed runner out and it was the third out.

Pete Booth

[dash_riprock]

I would just call the obstruction. R2 is not safe (yet). He still must touch the plate to complete his award.

After the out at 2nd, call time, announce the obstruction pointing at F2 (again) then point at R2 and say "you, score."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I find it hard to believe that anybody would mistake the NFHS Delayed Dead Ball Signal for the Outsignal.

I am not computer literate enough to post pictures of the two signals but if one goes to the Page 36 of the 2011 and 2012 NFHS Baseball Umpires Manual one will see that the Delayed Dead Ball Signal (Signal D) is given with the Left Arm and Fist held straight out from the shoulder parallel to the ground, while the Out Signal (Signal E) is given with the Right Arm (perpendicular to the ground) and Fist held up above the Umpire's head. The signals are completely different in look, and even though I am blind in one eye and can't see out of the other I can tell the difference.

The Umpire just has to momentarily give the DDB Signal while pointing with his Right hand toward where the Obstruction occured while saying (load enough for the players involved): "That's obsturction." Nothing more needs to be said except for Safe or Out on the play. He should not say play on becuase he has not said anything that would cause the ball to become dead such as: Dead Ball!! or Time!! or Foul Ball!! Players should know that they should continue to play until they here one of those three phrases, to say "Play On" is coaching.

RBMartin: Yes you should make a decision as to whether F2 tagged R1 out at HP. That does not stop play. Since you had Obstruction, you will call Time after all play as ceased, in your case, the Out on B2/R2 at 2B, and then award R1 HP for F2's Obstruction.

MTD, Sr.

I only use that stupid DDB signal when I'm professional wrestling and I want to clothesline my opponent.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I only use that stupid DDB signal when I'm professional wrestling and I want to clothesline my opponent.

Not to be confused with the DDT:

The Top Ten DDT Variations in Wrestling History - YouTube

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

I only use that stupid DDB signal when I'm professional wrestling and I want to clothesline my opponent.

We dropped that mechanic years ago, but I'm sure someone will say we were wrong to do so.