Are you calling a Balk?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by jicecone

No Sh#t Sherlock.

Don't take this personnal however, in all your 32 years of experience and expertise officiating, it just sticks out like a sore thumb, the one thing you just haven't mastered is, when to shut your trap. You don't always have to have the last say, even if YOU think you do.

Sorry you're so easily offended, but when you write, as a defense, "For the record, no one was deceived in either case but, I understand where you are coming from Steve. Everyone knew on the ball field that the pitcher was stepping off because the coach yelled it out. I use the word technical because NO ONE was deceived on either of these" it stands out "like a sore thumb" that you may not understand the rule.

If in fact, you do understand the rule and have chosen to not enforce it, my apologies.

[RPatrino]

A runner being deceived is not a criteria for calling or not calling the balk. Again, as said repeatedly, "see it, call it". If you see it and ignore it because you choose not to enforce the balk then that is your issue. Don't rationalize your decision.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rita C

What does the skill level have to do with it?

For the record, I would balk 13-14 year olds on those.

Accidentally dropping the ball is also a balk. You calling those?

Rita

I would balk 9-10 year old Mustang Leaguers as well. They are balks, and as such put the offense at an unfair disadvantage, which is the reason for the rule.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I would balk 9-10 year old Mustang Leaguers as well. They are balks, and as such put the offense at an unfair disadvantage, which is the reason for the rule.

I would too, if I umpired games with balks at that age level.

Mean old lady that I am, I made a 10 year old girl cry yesterday calling illegal pitches. But I was thanked for calling them afterwards. Parents who care, know their kids aren't going to learn if it isn't called.

I think it's a matter of respect for the players and the game.

Rita

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I would balk 9-10 year old Mustang Leaguers as well. They are balks, and as such put the offense at an unfair disadvantage, which is the reason for the rule.

No wonder you get all the big games. If anyone can put third graders in their place, it's you.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Thanks again, ever so much. Really. I have no idea how I ever managed a career with never having a protest over a call or complaint filed over game management without your amazing tips. Thanks to your input I know understand that when one does not do things as you suggest, it simply means that one is wrong.

Please, keep those tips and tidbits coming. I look forward to your advice daily. I know of no one else who so freely shares their superior knowledge. Really. Thank you.

With each post, you remind me and this board of a spoiled child who was caught behaving badly.

You profess endless umpiring knowledge but cannot fathom that drawing a line in the sand, per your suggestion, is a bad idea. Your advice is akin to stating, "One more word from you and you're done." That is called baiting. I know of no professional school that teaches such, nor any credible umpire who embraces that tact. Meanwhile, I suggest what every professional umpiring school currently does - umpire silence can never be misquoted. You seem to believe that I am alone in this belief. That arrogance is stupifying. You criticized another but cannot accept the same. Your post games must be amazingly frustrating for partners.

For what it's worth, the word is 'now' and not 'know'. If you intend to insult, don't make mistakes while doing so.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I would balk 9-10 year old Mustang Leaguers as well. They are balks, and as such put the offense at an unfair disadvantage, which is the reason for the rule.

Steve,
We just received the league rules for my son's 12U league this weekend. I quote:

"3.62 Major 12 Only - Balks will be called according to Pony and IHSA rules.

3.62a - At the discretion of the Umpire(s) ptchers may be given 1 or 2 warnings. Managers should discuss this prior to the game at the home plate meeting with the umpire."

That was verbatim. This is their first year with lead offs/pick offs. It is going to be a long season. Hope all is well on the west coast.

Mike

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

With each post, you remind me and this board of a spoiled child who was caught behaving badly.

You profess endless umpiring knowledge but cannot fathom that drawing a line in the sand, per your suggestion, is a bad idea. Your advice is akin to stating, "One more word from you and you're done." That is called baiting. I know of no professional school that teaches such, nor any credible umpire who embraces that tact. Meanwhile, I suggest what every professional umpiring school currently does - umpire silence can never be misquoted. You seem to believe that I am alone in this belief. That arrogance is stupifying. You criticized another but cannot accept the same. Your post games must be amazingly frustrating for partners.

For what it's worth, the word is 'now' and not 'know'. If you intend to insult, don't make mistakes while doing so.

At some point, silence equals condoning the behavior. If a coach says, "That's two you missed," I'll probably ignore it. If that's interpreted as, "He mustn't have heard me, so I'll yell it louder," then it has to get addressed. Not addressing it at this point would not be the right solution.

I still haven't gotten a response, either - how is a quiet warning the same as drawing a line in the sand and baiting a coach? I'd never say, "one more word," but I have told coaches in arguments (at the college level), "you need to walk away now" and they did. If they don't, then they simply aren't getting the message and the ejection report writes itself.

It's been three years since my last college/HS ejection, but if I had one tomorrow I wouldn't interpret it as anything but another day at the office.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Steve,

"3.62 Major 12 Only - Balks will be called according to Pony and IHSA rules.

Oh my...so which is it?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Oh my...so which is it?

It's an immediate and yet a delayed-dead ball.

Just goes to show that local leagues should let the rules writing to someone else.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

It's an immediate and yet a delayed-dead ball.

Just goes to show that local leagues should let the rules writing to someone else.

I'm curious to know how a pickoff from the windup should be handled.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Oh my...so which is it?

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm curious to know how a pickoff from the windup should be handled.

It's a balk and not a balk.

Reminds me of a playoff game a few years ago where I called such a balk and the coach told me he had never heard of such a thing. Or the college game where I left a balk live and the coach and my partner(!!!) (who works D1 games) tried convincing me balks were immediate dead balls.

I go out these days assuming I'm the only one on the field that knows the rules unless I know my partners really well.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

At some point, silence equals condoning the behavior. If a coach says, "That's two you missed," I'll probably ignore it.

Thank you. That was my point. The best umpires know this. It is what the schools teach and veterans preach.

If that's interpreted as, "He mustn't have heard me, so I'll yell it louder," then it has to get addressed. Not addressing it at this point would not be the right solution.

Did you read what I suggested? I wrote that a simple head shake his way (parents know this well!) or a stop sign (palm up and held his direction) are far more professional for the comment he made. Neither bait and both demonstrate authority. I think you'll agree that the job gets done without the umpire being the aggressor.

I still haven't gotten a response, either - how is a quiet warning the same as drawing a line in the sand and baiting a coach?

It isn't a warning. It is a threat. As stated prior, it is akin to the amateur philosophy of "Another word from you and you are done!" What happens when he says, "You're right. I'm sorry."? You look silly, that's what happens.

I'd never say, "one more word," but I have told coaches in arguments (at the college level), "you need to walk away now" and they did. If they don't, then they simply aren't getting the message and the ejection report writes itself.

That is a directive, not a threat. That is a reasonable response to many situations, especially at the college level. You agreed with my contention that the umpire lets the coach eject himself. There is no need to bait.

It's been three years since my last college/HS ejection, but if I had one tomorrow I wouldn't interpret it as anything but another day at the office.

Agreed. I don't worry about coaches who get tossed. It has been even longer since I ejected a coach. I don't bait and they don't feel a need to cross a line. Like you, I don't worry about comments like "That's two you missed." Silence can never be misquoted does not mean ignore blatant infractions of the rules. For me, it is a guiding principle - don't make a small problem become a big one by baiting a contestant. Enjoy your spring.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Oh my...so which is it?

That was my thought. That first balk is going to make for some interesting debate.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Mediocre Varsity teams. Score not important. R3. Pitcher is in windup and steps on to the plate with both hands together. After taking sign and setting ball in glove he removes hand about 4 inches out of glove, returns it to his glove and begins his motion. Coach insists pitcher has balked. We move on.

One week later, same team , same coach ahead by 9 runs in 7th inning and everyone yells for pitcher to step off. Lo and behold he does, but not with the pivot foot. He looks over and says "that is two you owe me". I tell him after the game that both cases were technical balks and he says " a balk is a balk." We agreed to disagree and moved on.

I know the differences, are you calling these?

Yup.