Calling the balk with R3

[fwump]

Our organization held its annual field clinic today. Clinicians were Minor League guys, one from Texas League and one from AAA PCL.

We were rotating in and out of a scrimmage game between a couple of 14U local teams. During my turn as PU with R3 I balked the pitcher for not coming to a stop. At the conclusion of the inning during my evaluation the PCL ump told me he probably would'nt have called that balk. His point: Is R3 going anywhere? Probably not. Was there any real attempt to deceive? Also probably not. He went on say in essence, that balking a pitcher with R3 should be treated differently than in other situations.

I was wondering what you guys think. Do you consider things like age of players or the inning or the score before you call the balk in this sitch or does it or should it matter?

Mike

[BigUmp56]

Our 14U program is split pretty equally with 13 and 14 year old players. The 13 year olds are just now moving up to the big diamond and have not had any experience yet with balks and lead offs. What we do to help these players make the transition is hold an instructional league in the fall. In that league we are extremely lenient about calling balks and do quite a bit of instruction to both the pitchers and coaches so they know what to expect from us when the Spring and Summer seasons start. If you're talking about something similar I can see the instructors point. If you're talking about USSSA or select ball where the players have been leading off on a modified 70' diamond in 12U, then I think you should have called the balk.

For J/V and Frosh games we call the balks. These players have all had at least one or two years on the big diamond and should know how to play the game.

Tim.

[BigUmp56]

Probably the reason you wouldn't call the balk is due to the fact that you don't know one when you see one.

I assume nothing. It's not my job to instruct high school players how to play the game. That's why they have coaches.

In a non-competitive instructional league it's a different story.

Keep your bigoted racial statements off this board! The race or social status of a player has nothing to do with officiating the game of baseball.

It must really bother you that someone you call a "Smitty" knows considerably more about umpiring than you do.


This shows me where you stand.

PWL:

Most of the time at the lower age level, JV/Frosh, I don't even look to make this call unless offensive coach is barking about it. They seldom if ever do.

Sometimes you have to balk them just so they know what you're talking about. They don't even know what a balk is. And, then they still don't get it.

Which is it? Do you not look to call it, or do you call it sometimes so they know what you're talking about? How about a little consistency. I'll bet the J/V coach who instructs his pitchers properly loves it when you cut the opposing pitcher some slack because you don't feel he had good enough coaching.



Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Feb 5th, 2006 at 02:11 PM]

[Justme]

Originally posted by fwump
Our organization held its annual field clinic today. Clinicians were Minor League guys, one from Texas League and one from AAA PCL.

We were rotating in and out of a scrimmage game between a couple of 14U local teams. During my turn as PU with R3 I balked the pitcher for not coming to a stop. At the conclusion of the inning during my evaluation the PCL ump told me he probably would'nt have called that balk. His point: Is R3 going anywhere? Probably not. Was there any real attempt to deceive? Also probably not. He went on say in essence, that balking a pitcher with R3 should be treated differently than in other situations.

I was wondering what you guys think. Do you consider things like age of players or the inning or the score before you call the balk in this sitch or does it or should it matter?

Mike

A balk is a balk no matter what the score is, the inning, the age of the players or the location of the baserunners (if you're playing with rules that have balks)....BUT.

I do not work many games below HS level but when I do and I see a balk I'll go over to F1 check the ball, kick the dirt off the rubber and quietly tell him what he did wrong and if he does it again I'm going to call the balk. If I'm working the dish I'll talk to F2 and have him relay the message. I hate to call balks on young F1's but they need to learn. I also hate to see a balk allow the winning run to score but rules are rules.

[BBUMP99]

At lower levels that call balks, often when I watch the pitcher warm up between innings, I watch his delivery from the stretch...If, during his warm-ups, he balks, I will go out and tell him what he did and that if he does it in the game he will be called for it...

[NSump]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
Probably the reason you wouldn't call the balk is due to the fact that you don't know one when you see one.

I assume nothing. It's not my job to instruct high school players how to play the game. That's why they have coaches.

In a non-competitive instructional league it's a different story.

Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Feb 5th, 2006 at 02:11 PM]

Tim:

Regardless of the level, we can and should "coach" to some extent. I have just completed a three part series on how coaching and umpiring roles collide at times. Here is part of what I said in part one.

---------------------

"That's a balk!" I bellowed. "You," I said pointing to the runner at second, "third base."

"Balk? What the hell is that for," the manager said as he bolted out from the bench.

Wanting to cut off any argument, I intercepted the coach at the mound and quickly got to the point. "Listen coach, he isn't stopping. And to make it worse, I already told your pitcher to make sure he stops."

"You did what?" the coach asked.

"Last inning," I continued, "I told your pitcher to make sure he was stopping. He was coming very close to not stopping and Ontario was *****ing about it. I can't do much more. Let's play."

The coach looked at the pitcher and he had this sheepish look on his face. "Make sure you F***ing stop!" the coach said as he stomped away. As the coach stormed off I thought, gee, that was exactly what I told him. I could be a coach!

This exchanged took place in August of 2003. Alberta was playing Ontario in the quarterfinal game of the Canadian Senior (no age limit) Baseball Championships. I was working 3rd base and figured to have a quiet night. Well, I called this crucial balk (the runner scored on a sacrifice fly) and also had four tag plays at third! So much for stealing money on this night!

------------------

As you can see, this was a high level and a "big" game. I see nothing wrong with giving someone a head's up that they are close to balking. If they decide to ignore that, they screw them.

I see it as preventative umpiring, not coaching. In the long run it makes my games smoother.

Blaine

[DG]

Originally posted by fwump
[BOur organization held its annual field clinic today. Clinicians were Minor League guys, one from Texas League and one from AAA PCL.

We were rotating in and out of a scrimmage game between a couple of 14U local teams. During my turn as PU with R3 I balked the pitcher for not coming to a stop. At the conclusion of the inning during my evaluation the PCL ump told me he probably would'nt have called that balk. His point: Is R3 going anywhere? Probably not. Was there any real attempt to deceive? Also probably not. He went on say in essence, that balking a pitcher with R3 should be treated differently than in other situations.

I was wondering what you guys think. Do you consider things like age of players or the inning or the score before you call the balk in this sitch or does it or should it matter?
[/B]

No better time for a pitcher to learn to stop than in a scrimmage game. And your clinician said he "probably wouldn't have called that balk". That's a definite-maybe-not if I ever heard.

But back to your question, I would consider the age and at 14U I would be more lenient, a NO STOP balk would have to be obvious. The inning and score and position of the runners would not be taken into consideration.

[BigUmp56]

Blaine:

You know I respect your opinions, but I still have a problem with instructing a pitcher on balks.

Here's why, and mind you this is purely hypothetical.


Top of the forth inning with R1 only. Home teams left handed pitcher fails to gain sufficient direction and distance on a successfull pickoff on R1.


I call, "Thats a balk, Time!! You second base."

Defensive manager in a huff comes out. "Hey, Tim, how in the he11 is that a balk, it looked like a good move to me!"

"Skip, he stepped more toward home than first and that's a balk."

He then say's, "Show me in the rule book where that's a balk!"

"Skip the rule say's he must step directly toward the base, he didn't do that, now lets play ball."

"That sucks!" says the coach.


Now we're in the bottom of the sixth with R1 only as well.

Visting teams pitcher feigns a throw to first from the rubber, but I don't call a balk. Now the storm is going to erupt.

Home teams coach heads out and yells. "Hey, Tim thats a balk, and you know it!"

What am I supposed to tell him?

"Well, skip I think he didn't gain an advantage because he didn't pick your runner off." "He just needs some lessons on how not to balk."

I preferr to be consitent and call balks when I see them for high shool players. When you start to coach one pitcher in one situation you'll need to start coaching all pitchers in all situations. That's not an umpires responsibility in my opinion.


Tim.

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Feb 5th, 2006 at 03:39 PM]

[3appleshigh]

See a Balk - Ignore a Balk.

[fwump]

I am on board with the concept of "preventitive umpiring". And I'm getting the idea from the feedback here that age level does matter to most of you guys when you are faced with this sitch.

Lets say you are doing a HS varsity playoff game. Tie game bottom 7th with R3. F1 comes set and does not come to a full stop but it is close. Is your thinking here going to be different? Are you willimg to balk in the winning run on a not very blatent balk?

Mike

[DG]

Originally posted by fwump
I am on board with the concept of "preventitive umpiring". And I'm getting the idea from the feedback here that age level does matter to most of you guys when you are faced with this sitch.

Lets say you are doing a HS varsity playoff game. Tie game bottom 7th with R3. F1 comes set and does not come to a full stop but it is close. Is your thinking here going to be different? Are you willimg to balk in the winning run on a not very blatent balk?

Mike

Either he came set or he didn't. There is no such thing as "close" or "not very blatent". If he didn't come set I would definitely balk in the winning run. I can't envision a varsity pitcher not coming to a complete stop in this situation.

But then again, I recall a college game last year in Omaha where the pitcher didn't come set with R3, and a balk was called, and it was late in the game.

[Thump]

If you call a balk when the pitcher balks...then you are using the rulebook and you can be backed up.

If you ignore a balk with the pitcher balks...then you are ignoring the rulebook, and can't be backed up.

If a pitcher balks, and you see it, and don't call it because of the "situation." Then you really are not doing your job.

If it's close, or you aren't sure...then don't call it. But if you KNOW he balked...and everyone KNOWS he balked. He balked. His fault, not yours. I don't care if he leaves the field crying...or what the age level. I'll call it. If the rules at the level call for a warning, i'll warn. But if they don't...then I won't.

If I don't call it, I feel as though i'm being unfair.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by fwump
I am on board with the concept of "preventitive umpiring". And I'm getting the idea from the feedback here that age level does matter to most of you guys when you are faced with this sitch.

Lets say you are doing a HS varsity playoff game. Tie game bottom 7th with R3. F1 comes set and does not come to a full stop but it is close. Is your thinking here going to be different? Are you willimg to balk in the winning run on a not very blatent balk?

Mike

Forget Hypotheticals:

Three years ago, at the American Legion Regionals: Bottom of the last, home down by 1, R2 and R3, two outs. Visitors bring in the third reliever of the day.

On the second pitch he doesn't come to a stop. "That's a balk!"

The tying run scores, the go ahead runner moves to third. On the next pitch the batter hits a "seeing eye" grounder just past the second baseman and the new R3 scores, game over.

Coach is screaming at me: "I can't believe you would call a balk so late in the season."

As I pass him leaving the field I respond, "I can't believe your pitcher would balk so late in the season."

Do you make safe/out calls differently in the latter innings? How about fair/foul calls? Why would you suggest that balk calls be any different?

[fwump]

Garth,

I agree...should'nt matter, a balk is a balk. I was just wondering if anyone out there shared the minor league umpire's nuanced opinion. I think we are opening a can of worms when we even think about the score, the inning, the magnitude or importance of the particular game when we make a judgement call. Just call it and live with it! But make sure you get it right.


Mike

[fwump]

WHEW!

Pwl ,

Actually you, BigUmp56, and others gave some very measured and reasonable responses to my initial question and I appreciate the input. The inevitable personal attacks, which most of the time are not justified, become really tedious and don’t serve any purpose to me. I lurk and rarely post unless I see the opportunity to possibly learn something that will make me a better umpire.

To send a response directed to me, which includes insulting and defaming remarks about another poster, shows a lack of class.

Mike