Calling a balk on a 3rd baseman...

[ElPanadero]

Can you call a balk on a 3rd baseman?

Here's the situtation: bases loaded in the bottom of the extra inning of a 5-5 Mustang game (9 & 10 year olds). The batter has 2 strikes on him and there are 2 outs. The pitcher throws a called 3rd strike, batters out, 3rd out and the game ends in a tie.

Not so fast...the base umpire calls a balk on the 3rd baseman for straddling the foul line. One foot is in fair territory and the other foot is in foul territory while he is trying to hold the runner. The manager of the other team had already given the base umpire a heads up and pointed out that the 3rd baseman had been doing this the whole game.

There was no attempted pick-off at 3rd during the last pitch. The game ends in a 6-5 win for the home team (who was at bat) when the winning run is balked in.

Can you even call a balk on anyone besides the pitcher and catcher. Is that a correct call? I referenced OML baseball rule 4.03 and think I figured it out. Not sure though. Any help would be appreciated.

[bob jenkins]

this so-called "fielder's balk" is one of the strangely pervasive myths in youth baseball. IT has no basis in the rules.

Depnding on the "expert" you believe, and the rules code being used, straddling the line might be legal. Even if it's not, the penalty is to require teh fielder to be completley in fair territory. If the fielder refuses to comply, then he can be ejected -- but that "never" happens.

[ElPanadero]

Thanks for the reply. I thought that that was the case on a "fielder's balk", just wanted to be completely sure. I never found the penalty for an infielder being in foul territory but your explanation makes sense. Thanks.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by ElPanadero

Not so fast...the base umpire calls a balk on the 3rd baseman for straddling the foul line. One foot is in fair territory and the other foot is in foul territory while he is trying to hold the runner. The manager of the other team had already given the base umpire a heads up and pointed out that the 3rd baseman had been doing this the whole game.

Without the fielders being in fair territory (except F2) the pitches should not have happened.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

this so-called "fielder's balk" is one of the strangely pervasive myths in youth baseball. IT has no basis in the rules.

I think this reply may be confusing to the original poster, who may not even be familiar with the term "fielder's balk". So for the use of the original poster, here are some aspects of the rules.

First, all three of the major rule codes (Official Baseball Rules, which probably is the basis for the rules used in Mustangs, NCAA rules, and NFHS, which are used by high schools in most states) require all fielders except the catcher to be in fair territory when the ball is pitched. However, the various rule codes diverge sharply, and I suspect that odd rulings on the field arise because some umpires incorrectly combine aspects of the codes.

OBR require the fielders to have both feet touching fair territory. However, there is no penalty, and in fact umpires are instructed to not take notice of an infraction unless the opposing team complains.

NCAA requires one foot touching fair territory, but only imposes a penalty if the defense gained an advantege. The penalty is to nullify the play.

NFHS requires one foot touching fair territory, and the penalty is an illegal pitch-- which is a ball to the batter if no one is on base, and a balk if there are runners.

So, regarding the specific issue of a fielder straddling the foul line, it cannot be a balk: NFHS is the only rule code which offers a balk penalty, but straddling the line is legal in NFHS (and NCAA).

Can you call a balk on the third baseman? In a manner of speaking, yes, if neither foot touches fair ground, but only in high school rules. Of course, in the stats, any balk is charged to the pitcher.

[UMP25]

I'm surprised no one has emphasized this irrefutable fact: NO ONE BUT THE PITCHER CAN BE CHARGED WITH A BALK!!! NO ONE--not the catcher, the third baseman--NO ONE BUT THE PITCHER can ever be charged with a balk.

End of humongous sigh of disbelief.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I'm surprised no one has emphasized this irrefutable fact: NO ONE BUT THE PITCHER CAN BE CHARGED WITH A BALK!!!

So I take it that the last sentence of my post was too mild for you?

[Four-Oh]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

First, all three of the major rule codes (Official Baseball Rules, which probably is the basis for the rules used in Mustangs, NCAA rules, and NFHS, which are used by high schools in most states) require all fielders except the catcher to be in fair territory when the ball is pitched.

While I realize that this rule is not usually enforced strictly, I thought the requirement (at least in OBR 4.03 and J/R 26.II.C (9th ed., p. 181)) was only in effect at the time the ball is put in play.

As a note, J/R does suggest a balk as the penalty for a fielder violating this rule and becoming involved in a play (same page, suggested penalization (b) & (c)), and that a fielder who refuses to go to fair territory when instructed by the umpire may be ejected, but goes on to say that there is no violation if the fielder is in fair territory when the ball is put in play, then leaves it afterward. None of that is actually in the OBR, of course.

All that said, time to get out of books and onto an actual ballfield!

Regards,
Andrew

[DG]

Originally Posted by ElPanadero

Here's the situtation: bases loaded in the bottom of the extra inning of a 5-5 Mustang game (9 & 10 year olds). The batter has 2 strikes on him and there are 2 outs. The pitcher throws a called 3rd strike, batters out, 3rd out and the game ends in a tie.

Not so fast...the base umpire calls a balk on the 3rd baseman for straddling the foul line. One foot is in fair territory and the other foot is in foul territory while he is trying to hold the runner. The manager of the other team had already given the base umpire a heads up and pointed out that the 3rd baseman had been doing this the whole game.

Mustang is a division of Pony, which uses OBR. There are differences between OBR and other codes, but in this case the umpire in question is both wrong and being overly officious and succumbing to the suggestions of a coach of 9-10 year olds. Jeez.

If the manager had pointed this out to me I would have asked him if he was serious.

[Dave Reed]

PBUC 1.16 says "Do not insist on the first baseman playing with both feet in fair territory unless the offensive team protests. If they do, you must enforce the rule as written, but make sure it is enforced for both teams."

This directive wouldn't make much sense if the first baseman were only required to be in fair territory at the instant the ball is put into play by the umpire.

The BRD devotes over 3 pages to this aspect of the rules. It is a mess.

[kylejt]

I'm begging you to tell me the manager protested this idiotic ruling. Please, tell me someone on the field had a brain. It's a Mustang game for gosh sakes.

It sounds like the third base coach talked a rookie umpire into something. Nice job coach, I hope you choke on the protest(please, please, please tell me there's a protest).

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

So I take it that the last sentence of my post was too mild for you?

Not too mild, just a tad incorrect. One cannot call a balk on a third baseman. Ever. A balk can only be called on a pitcher.

[Tim C]

Correct. Under NFHS Rules the only way a fielder could be in non-confromance with the rule would be to have both feet in foul territory. If the player was in foul ground then the umpire could not legally put a ball into play.

A balk cannot be called under NFHS Rules if the PU follows all FED Rules on this play.

Regards,

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Correct. Under NFHS Rules the only way a fielder could be in non-confromance with the rule would be to have both feet in foul territory. If the player was in foul ground then the umpire could not legally put a ball into play.

A balk cannot be called under NFHS Rules if the PU follows all FED Rules on this play.

Regards,

Correct.

[curmudgeon mode: ON]

C'mon, guys...this is first year stuff.

[curmudgeon mode: OFF]

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Correct. Under NFHS Rules the only way a fielder could be in non-confromance with the rule would be to have both feet in foul territory. If the player was in foul ground then the umpire could not legally put a ball into play.

A balk cannot be called under NFHS Rules if the PU follows all FED Rules on this play.

Regards,

FED 1-1-4?