Defensive verbal cues to the offense?

[onetime1]

So the runner who is leading off 2nd base should be awarded 3rd base if the Shortstop yells "back" continually??

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by onetime1

So the runner who is leading off 2nd base should be awarded 3rd base if the Shortstop yells "back" continually??

Not in my games. Now, maybe if F6 yells it, causes R2 to return just as the ball is hit, and R2 is out on a close play at third. But, who's going to see that?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by onetime1

So the runner who is leading off 2nd base should be awarded 3rd base if the Shortstop yells "back" continually??

The first time he yells it, I will tell him to knock it off.

The second time, I'll stop the game and record a warning with PU and the head coach.

The third time, we'll need a sub.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The first time he yells it, I will tell him to knock it off.

The second time, I'll stop the game and record a warning with PU and the head coach.

The third time, we'll need a sub.

Wrong!

If you are doing a FED game, it's obstruction - no questions asked (Rich Ives can correct me but I think in LL this holds also).

If you are doing NCAA or OBR, you have no grounds to do anything because there is no verbal obstruction rule as in FED. If you give a warning or stop the game, the coach can protest and you will be ruled against.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Wrong!

If you are doing a FED game, it's obstruction - no questions asked (Rich Ives can correct me but I think in LL this holds also).

Nope. You're not getting it. It can't be obstruction unless it hinders the runner. I'm addressing it before that can happen.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Nope. You're not getting it. It can't be obstruction unless it hinders the runner. I'm addressing it before that can happen.

It hindered the runner. He returned to 2B. Unless you are a mindreader, you don't know if there would have been an attempt to steal or not. The offense was deprived of that opportunity due to an illegal act by the defense.

[JohnDorian37]

according to the rule (2-22-1), it wouldn't be obstruction unless the offensive player reacts to what F6 is yelling. if the runner doesn't pay any attention to him or react to it at all, i buy it as nothing.

if it causes him to react in any manner adverse to the offense, i don't see why he would need to be put out at third before it would become obstruction.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Matt

It hindered the runner. He returned to 2B. Unless you are a mindreader, you don't know if there would have been an attempt to steal or not. The offense was deprived of that opportunity due to an illegal act by the defense.

I'm not talking about the OP. I was answering onetime's question.

[DG]

Seems to entirely depend on the situation (this one pretty vague), and assuming FED, because otherwise nothing to rule on. I can envision an award of home would be appropriate in FED.

[CT1]

The problem with allowing this (in FED) is that it *does* give the defense an advantage. F6/F4 can *hold* the runner while maintaining a normal fielding position. I'd warn the first time, then enforce OBS.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Wrong!

If you are doing a FED game, it's obstruction - no questions asked (Rich Ives can correct me but I think in LL this holds also).

If you are doing NCAA or OBR, you have no grounds to do anything because there is no verbal obstruction rule as in FED. If you give a warning or stop the game, the coach can protest and you will be ruled against.

Officially ther's no verbal obstruction in LL. Unofficially you treat it as UC in majors and below. (Fake tags are obs in LL)