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-   -   Defensive verbal cues to the offense? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/87296-defensive-verbal-cues-offense.html)

onetime1 Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:02pm

Defensive verbal cues to the offense?
 
Is it legal for an infielder to yell "back" to a baserunner at second base in an attempt to distract him?

Matt Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 819213)
Is it legal for an infielder to yell "back" to a baserunner at second base in an attempt to distract him?

What rules?

FED, OBS.
NCAA and OBR, legal.

JohnDorian37 Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:27am

NFHS case play 2.22.1(A). Obstruction.

EsqUmp Thu Feb 02, 2012 07:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDorian37 (Post 819237)
NFHS case play 2.22.1(A). Obstruction.

What does that say?

onetime1 Thu Feb 02, 2012 08:49am

NFHS rules

Rich Ives Thu Feb 02, 2012 09:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 819306)
What does that say?

2.22.1 SITUATION A: R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells “get back, get back.” R1 thinks B2 has hit a popup and starts back to first where he is tagged out. RULING: This is verbal obstruction and R1 shall be awarded second base.

bob jenkins Thu Feb 02, 2012 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 819349)
2.22.1 SITUATION A: R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells “get back, get back.” R1 thinks B2 has hit a popup and starts back to first where he is tagged out. RULING: This is verbal obstruction and R1 shall be awarded second base.

That seems entirely different from the OP, to me.

onetime1 Thu Feb 02, 2012 09:51am

So the runner who is leading off 2nd base should be awarded 3rd base if the Shortstop yells "back" continually??

bob jenkins Thu Feb 02, 2012 09:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 819360)
So the runner who is leading off 2nd base should be awarded 3rd base if the Shortstop yells "back" continually??

Not in my games. Now, maybe if F6 yells it, causes R2 to return just as the ball is hit, and R2 is out on a close play at third. But, who's going to see that?

Rich Ives Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 819358)
That seems entirely different from the OP, to me.

The OP didn't describe the circumstances - only the yelling of "back" to distract the ruinner.

mbyron Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 819360)
So the runner who is leading off 2nd base should be awarded 3rd base if the Shortstop yells "back" continually??

The first time he yells it, I will tell him to knock it off.

The second time, I'll stop the game and record a warning with PU and the head coach.

The third time, we'll need a sub.

ozzy6900 Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 819383)
The first time he yells it, I will tell him to knock it off.

The second time, I'll stop the game and record a warning with PU and the head coach.

The third time, we'll need a sub.

Wrong!

If you are doing a FED game, it's obstruction - no questions asked (Rich Ives can correct me but I think in LL this holds also).

If you are doing NCAA or OBR, you have no grounds to do anything because there is no verbal obstruction rule as in FED. If you give a warning or stop the game, the coach can protest and you will be ruled against.

mbyron Thu Feb 02, 2012 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 819414)
Wrong!

If you are doing a FED game, it's obstruction - no questions asked (Rich Ives can correct me but I think in LL this holds also).

Nope. You're not getting it. It can't be obstruction unless it hinders the runner. I'm addressing it before that can happen.

Rich Ives Thu Feb 02, 2012 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzy6900 (Post 819414)
Wrong!

If you are doing a FED game, it's obstruction - no questions asked (Rich Ives can correct me but I think in LL this holds also).

If you are doing NCAA or OBR, you have no grounds to do anything because there is no verbal obstruction rule as in FED. If you give a warning or stop the game, the coach can protest and you will be ruled against.

Officially ther's no verbal obstruction in LL. Unofficially you treat it as UC in majors and below. (Fake tags are obs in LL)

Matt Thu Feb 02, 2012 06:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 819443)
Nope. You're not getting it. It can't be obstruction unless it hinders the runner. I'm addressing it before that can happen.

It hindered the runner. He returned to 2B. Unless you are a mindreader, you don't know if there would have been an attempt to steal or not. The offense was deprived of that opportunity due to an illegal act by the defense.


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