BR Misses 1st / Beats throw mechanic

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

What if time is called before the overrunning BR can return to 1b or before the defense can properly appeal?

Don't grant time. If you did, you kind of screwed up.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Don't grant time. If you did, you kind of screwed up.

Disagree in Fed. What if it's the defense requesting time to execute a dead ball appeal?

[BretMan]

Then you still shouldn't be granting time before the play is over- and it's not over until you've given the runner the opportunity to correct his base running mistake or he's stopped running.

Really...would you grant time on any other play when runners haven't finished running the bases and were still in jeopardy?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It's a missed base. Treat it as such.

Please enlighten us as to how to treat it as such per NFHS? I am not sure what you are trying to say.

MTD, Sr.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Then you still shouldn't be granting time before the play is over- and it's not over until you've given the runner the opportunity to correct his base running mistake or he's stopped running.

Really...would you grant time on any other play when runners haven't finished running the bases and were still in jeopardy?

If the batter-runner is walking back to first base after over running it and all other runners have quit trying to advance, the play is over. In this situation, I would not hesitate in granting time to the defense. It is the batter runner who has made the mistake and by hesitating in calling time, you are bailing him out.

[BretMan]

I wouldn't consider the play over while the runner still has base running duties to complete and is in the act of completing them.

Using your "logic"...

R1 on first base. Batter hits fly ball to F8. R1 takes off at the crack of the bat. The fly ball is caught. R1 realizes his mistake just short of second base, reverses direction and is heading back to first to correct his mistake.

Would you grant the defense time while R1 is heading back?

Why or why not?

How is the missed first base play any different?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I wouldn't consider the play over while the runner still has base running duties to complete and is in the act of completing them.

Using your "logic"...

R1 on first base. Batter hits fly ball to F8. R1 takes off at the crack of the bat. The fly ball is caught. R1 realizes his mistake just short of second base, reverses direction and is heading back to first to correct his mistake.

Would you grant the defense time while R1 is heading back?

Why or why not?

How is the missed first base play any different?

You are describing two entirely different plays. In your situation, "R1 realizes his mistake" before trying to correct it. In my situation, B-R is walking back to the base after overrunning it. If he's walking back, he neither realizes his mistake, nor is he attempting to correct it. The play is over, and the "logical" thing to do would be to grant a defensive timeout and give them an opportunity to make a dead ball appeal.

[Caesar's Ghost]

Case 8.2.2C "The defense cannot appeal the missed base if the runer has initiated an attempt to return to the base"

While it's a judgment call, in my judgment, walking back to first is an attempt to return

[TwoBits]

8.2.2 SITUATION C

"The runner from first base misses SECOND base on his way to third..."

Again, we are talking overrunning and missing FIRST base here. I still contend there is a difference between missing any other base and trying to correct the mistake and missing first base and not trying to correct it.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

If the batter-runner is walking back to first base after over running it and all other runners have quit trying to advance, the play is over. In this situation, I would not hesitate in granting time to the defense. It is the batter runner who has made the mistake and by hesitating in calling time, you are bailing him out.

If the BR is still walking back toward first, I am not going to grant time until he is touching first and ALL play has ended. What if, by some quirk of fate, the BR decides against all odds and logic, to make a break toward second? This is not likely, but nonetheless, just wait. We don't alter the flow of play to accommodate a possible appeal.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

If the BR is still walking back toward first, I am not going to grant time until he is touching first and ALL play has ended. What if, by some quirk of fate, the BR decides against all odds and logic, to make a break toward second? This is not likely, but nonetheless, just wait. We don't alter the flow of play to accommodate a possible appeal.

Would you grant a live ball appeal if B-R missed first, and F3, while standing on the bag and before the B-R returned to the base, stated that he missed the base and was appealing?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

You are describing two entirely different plays.

That both involve the same principle. You have a runner who is not yet out, is still liable to be put out, is at the moment still subject to a properly executed live ball appeal and still has the opportunity to correct his base running error before the appeal is made.

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Would you grant a live ball appeal if B-R missed first, and F3, while standing on the bag and before the B-R returned to the base, stated that he missed the base and was appealing?

Sure because that's how a live ball appeal works.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Would you grant a live ball appeal if B-R missed first, and F3, while standing on the bag and before the B-R returned to the base, stated that he missed the base and was appealing?

Of course!! Are you going to call TIME, just for the purposes of allowing a dead ball appeal, when all the F3 has to do is tag the runner or base?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Of course!! Are you going to call TIME, just for the purposes of allowing a dead ball appeal, when all the F3 has to do is tag the runner or base?

Of course! The defense is executing a legal dead ball appeal. They aren't the ones who screwed up.

I'm done. Agree to disagree.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Of course! The defense is executing a legal dead ball appeal. They aren't the ones who screwed up.

I'm done. Agree to disagree.

You may of course grant a time out. You would be wrong. Food for thought, would you not want to allow the BR to correct his baserunning error?