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Hugo, I know that you emailed me about this last week. I searched through all the FED materials I have on hand and all I could come up with is what mbyron posted above from the FED Baseball Umpires Manual...then I forgot to email you back. But I suppose your doubting colleagues might need more than that. If they don't get the basic premise that a runner passing a base is assumed to have aquired it, pending an appeal, then I'm sure they want an interpretation spelled out and wrapped up in a tidy little bow to convince them otherwise. I couldn't find such a reference for FED. The Major League Baseball Umpires Manual spells this out exactly as has been stated- signal the B/R safe, then wait for an appeal. |
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I don't have it with me however, Jaksa/Roder covers this play. You'll need to explain to them the difference between aquiring a base vs. touching a base. Until they understand this concept, they'll never get it.
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Its' not a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of working hard to get it right. |
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I have posted this several places and did get the MLB Umpire manual quote which I just emailed to one of them. Of course, the comment was that they were talking about NFHS,,, It appears (so far), from inquiring on several boards, that NFHS does not spell it out word for word, nor have a reference to something like " a player who has reached/passed a base is treated as if they touched the base" Maybe one day they'll get it. ![]() The good thing is - I don't do baseball with them! ![]() |
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At one time, FED had a case play which included the concept of an "unintentional" appeal. That is, if a runner (or B/R) missed a base but any fielder with the ball subsequently touched the missed base, the runner was out by appeal.
PLAY: R1. B2 hits a clean single to center, and R1 goes to third, missing second in the process. F8 throws the ball in to F4 who is standing on second base. I haven't called FED rules in a few years, but I believe that concept has since been removed. |
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8.2.6 SITUATION F: With R1 at 1st, B2 hits a double sending R1 to 3rd. However, R1 misses 2nd base. F6 is standing on 2nd when he catches the throw from the outfield. He then throws the ball to the pitcher. RULING: Although R1 missed 2nd, no call will be made by the umpire because F6 did not make an intentional appeal of the missed base. |
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That concept IS in FED.
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Rich Ives Different does not equate to wrong |
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Hugo, I've been following this post on this and another board and my advice is simply tell your buddies to get their heads out of their arses! We haven't called the out (in FED) for a missed base since 2004 or 2005 when FED changed the rule. A missed base is a missed base, just like OBR and it is handled the same way.
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When in doubt, bang 'em out! Ozzy |
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Thanks
Rich, OZZIE and everyone else.
Thanks for confirming the concept. I don't know if these guys will ever get it coming from me. I've tried the "missed base requires an appeal" approach, but they were more concerned with "fielder tags the base before the BR touches the base". ![]() I'm sure you've met them. ![]() I sent them the MLB wording but they are saying NFHS is different. I was hoping I could find something NFHS has written for their benefit. My last suggestion was to have the assignor (YES, that is one of the people who wants to call the out immediately when F3 catches the ball with his foot on the base) write the state rules interpreter..... Not much more I can do - I'm just a softball umpire, ![]() Thanks again for your answers. |
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Don't grant time. If you did, you kind of screwed up.
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It's like Deja Vu all over again |
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Disagree in Fed. What if it's the defense requesting time to execute a dead ball appeal?
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"Not all heroes have time to pose for sculptors...some still have papers to grade." |
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Then you still shouldn't be granting time before the play is over- and it's not over until you've given the runner the opportunity to correct his base running mistake or he's stopped running.
Really...would you grant time on any other play when runners haven't finished running the bases and were still in jeopardy? |
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"Not all heroes have time to pose for sculptors...some still have papers to grade." |
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I wouldn't consider the play over while the runner still has base running duties to complete and is in the act of completing them.
Using your "logic"... R1 on first base. Batter hits fly ball to F8. R1 takes off at the crack of the bat. The fly ball is caught. R1 realizes his mistake just short of second base, reverses direction and is heading back to first to correct his mistake. Would you grant the defense time while R1 is heading back? Why or why not? How is the missed first base play any different? Last edited by BretMan; Sat Jun 16, 2012 at 08:40am. |
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