The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 20, 2011, 06:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
It's a missed base. Treat it as such.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong

Last edited by Rich Ives; Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 06:54pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 20, 2011, 09:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 480
What if time is called before the overrunning BR can return to 1b or before the defense can properly appeal?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 20, 2011, 10:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmartin View Post
What if time is called before the overrunning BR can return to 1b or before the defense can properly appeal?
Then the umpire has just screwed up and you have to place the B/R on first base. By calling time, you did not give the B/R an opportunity to complete his baserunning responsibilities.

Hugo, I know that you emailed me about this last week. I searched through all the FED materials I have on hand and all I could come up with is what mbyron posted above from the FED Baseball Umpires Manual...then I forgot to email you back.

But I suppose your doubting colleagues might need more than that. If they don't get the basic premise that a runner passing a base is assumed to have aquired it, pending an appeal, then I'm sure they want an interpretation spelled out and wrapped up in a tidy little bow to convince them otherwise. I couldn't find such a reference for FED.

The Major League Baseball Umpires Manual spells this out exactly as has been stated- signal the B/R safe, then wait for an appeal.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 20, 2011, 11:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: At the base of the mountains
Posts: 377
I don't have it with me however, Jaksa/Roder covers this play. You'll need to explain to them the difference between aquiring a base vs. touching a base. Until they understand this concept, they'll never get it.
__________________
Its' not a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of working hard to get it right.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 21, 2011, 12:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Central, FL
Posts: 1,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
Then the umpire has just screwed up and you have to place the B/R on first base. By calling time, you did not give the B/R an opportunity to complete his baserunning responsibilities.

Hugo, I know that you emailed me about this last week. I searched through all the FED materials I have on hand and all I could come up with is what mbyron posted above from the FED Baseball Umpires Manual...then I forgot to email you back.

But I suppose your doubting colleagues might need more than that. If they don't get the basic premise that a runner passing a base is assumed to have aquired it, pending an appeal, then I'm sure they want an interpretation spelled out and wrapped up in a tidy little bow to convince them otherwise. I couldn't find such a reference for FED.

The Major League Baseball Umpires Manual spells this out exactly as has been stated- signal the B/R safe, then wait for an appeal.
Bret, you hit the nail on the head...
I have posted this several places and did get the MLB Umpire manual quote which I just emailed to one of them.
Of course, the comment was that they were talking about NFHS,,,

It appears (so far), from inquiring on several boards, that NFHS does not spell it out word for word, nor have a reference to something like " a player who has reached/passed a base is treated as if they touched the base"

Maybe one day they'll get it.
The good thing is - I don't do baseball with them!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 21, 2011, 08:30am
CT1 CT1 is offline
Official & ***** Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,049
At one time, FED had a case play which included the concept of an "unintentional" appeal. That is, if a runner (or B/R) missed a base but any fielder with the ball subsequently touched the missed base, the runner was out by appeal.

PLAY: R1. B2 hits a clean single to center, and R1 goes to third, missing second in the process. F8 throws the ball in to F4 who is standing on second base.

I haven't called FED rules in a few years, but I believe that concept has since been removed.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 21, 2011, 09:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
At one time, FED had a case play which included the concept of an "unintentional" appeal. That is, if a runner (or B/R) missed a base but any fielder with the ball subsequently touched the missed base, the runner was out by appeal.

PLAY: R1. B2 hits a clean single to center, and R1 goes to third, missing second in the process. F8 throws the ball in to F4 who is standing on second base.

I haven't called FED rules in a few years, but I believe that concept has since been removed.
The "no accidental appeals" concept is in there.

8.2.6 SITUATION F: With R1 at 1st, B2 hits a double sending R1 to 3rd. However, R1 misses 2nd base. F6 is standing on 2nd when he catches the throw from the outfield. He then throws the ball to the pitcher. RULING: Although R1 missed 2nd, no call will be made by the umpire because F6 did not make an intentional appeal of the missed base.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 21, 2011, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoTafurst View Post
Bret, you hit the nail on the head...
I have posted this several places and did get the MLB Umpire manual quote which I just emailed to one of them.
Of course, the comment was that they were talking about NFHS,,,

It appears (so far), from inquiring on several boards, that NFHS does not spell it out word for word, nor have a reference to something like " a player who has reached/passed a base is treated as if they touched the base"

Maybe one day they'll get it.
The good thing is - I don't do baseball with them!
Maybe you can get them to realize that's it's a missed base and on a missed base the runner is safe unless appealed.

That concept IS in FED.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 21, 2011, 12:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Hugo, I've been following this post on this and another board and my advice is simply tell your buddies to get their heads out of their arses! We haven't called the out (in FED) for a missed base since 2004 or 2005 when FED changed the rule. A missed base is a missed base, just like OBR and it is handled the same way.
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 21, 2011, 02:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Central, FL
Posts: 1,042
Thanks

Rich, OZZIE and everyone else.

Thanks for confirming the concept.

I don't know if these guys will ever get it coming from me.


I've tried the "missed base requires an appeal" approach, but they were more concerned with "fielder tags the base before the BR touches the base".
I'm sure you've met them.

I sent them the MLB wording but they are saying NFHS is different.
I was hoping I could find something NFHS has written for their benefit.
My last suggestion was to have the assignor (YES, that is one of the people who wants to call the out immediately when F3 catches the ball with his foot on the base) write the state rules interpreter.....


Not much more I can do - I'm just a softball umpire,

Thanks again for your answers.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 15, 2012, 03:44pm
Stop staring at me swan.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmartin View Post
What if time is called before the overrunning BR can return to 1b or before the defense can properly appeal?
Don't grant time. If you did, you kind of screwed up.
__________________
It's like Deja Vu all over again
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 15, 2012, 06:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Don't grant time. If you did, you kind of screwed up.
Disagree in Fed. What if it's the defense requesting time to execute a dead ball appeal?
__________________
"Not all heroes have time to pose for sculptors...some still have papers to grade."
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 15, 2012, 08:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,640
Then you still shouldn't be granting time before the play is over- and it's not over until you've given the runner the opportunity to correct his base running mistake or he's stopped running.

Really...would you grant time on any other play when runners haven't finished running the bases and were still in jeopardy?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 16, 2012, 06:05am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
Then you still shouldn't be granting time before the play is over- and it's not over until you've given the runner the opportunity to correct his base running mistake or he's stopped running.

Really...would you grant time on any other play when runners haven't finished running the bases and were still in jeopardy?
If the batter-runner is walking back to first base after over running it and all other runners have quit trying to advance, the play is over. In this situation, I would not hesitate in granting time to the defense. It is the batter runner who has made the mistake and by hesitating in calling time, you are bailing him out.
__________________
"Not all heroes have time to pose for sculptors...some still have papers to grade."
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 16, 2012, 08:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,640
I wouldn't consider the play over while the runner still has base running duties to complete and is in the act of completing them.

Using your "logic"...

R1 on first base. Batter hits fly ball to F8. R1 takes off at the crack of the bat. The fly ball is caught. R1 realizes his mistake just short of second base, reverses direction and is heading back to first to correct his mistake.

Would you grant the defense time while R1 is heading back?

Why or why not?

How is the missed first base play any different?

Last edited by BretMan; Sat Jun 16, 2012 at 08:40am.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VT Beats US Olympians emaxos Softball 0 Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:41am
New mechanic for backcourt throw-in? jdccpa Basketball 6 Thu Dec 15, 2005 04:09pm
3 man mechanic on sideline throw in below free throw line extended!!!! jritchie Basketball 10 Tue Nov 01, 2005 02:43pm
Throw in violation...mechanic Jeff the Ref Basketball 11 Tue Dec 02, 2003 08:51am
BR Beats Throw to 1B but misses Base Phil Vivenzio Baseball 9 Sat Mar 17, 2001 08:59pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1