Parent Etiquette

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Tim, I normally agree with you, but this is horrible advice. Except for the youngest ages of players (not umpires), I'm dumping any coach that brings a rule book to me to question a call. A coach has three options if he doesn't like a situation: (1) Protest, (2) Shut up, (3) Get ejected. For the younger years, I can see the dad/coach not knowing how bad of a situation it is, and will warn him to take the book back.

If his son wants to say "Coach, you need to go back to the bench and find the rule yourself. If you really feel I'm wrong now, you can file a protest before I put the ball back in play."

I believe the NCAA rulebook states that a copy shall or should be at every game. When I was doing College ball, If I ejected a coach for bringing a rule boo,k I know I would have received a call from my assignor asking me what rule violation was the coach ejected for.

I agree that most Coaches intentions are to try an show up the official but, the fact that he came out on the field to discuss anything can be construed as that also. What does carrying a book or pad or anything else have to do with it.

There have been times when a coach has approached me with a rulebook and I savor the moment. Why? Because I get to actually display my knowledge of the rules and in my own devious way turn the cards on him and shows his *** up.

If getting respect were as easy as Aretha Franklin would lead us to believe, we'd all be singing on the Field.The most respected officials exude unpretentious confidence. They combine decisiveness, knowledge of the game, professionalism, well-developed social skills and a calm demeanor that communicates itself to players, coaches, officials and fans.

Of course, if I am approached in a disrespectful manner, I also will have to resort to the rules of removal alloted me in the rulebook. See Ya.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by jicecone

When I was doing College ball, If I ejected a coach for bringing a rule boo,k I know I would have received a call from my assignor asking me what rule violation was the coach ejected for.

Maybe it's just semantics, but what I might say to said assignor is "I ejected him for not following an umpire directive." I get the point - nothing in the rule book says it can't be brought on the field - so it's more like:

"Skip, take that rulebook back to the dugout"
Skip keeps coming.
Whoosh.

He's been given a 'direct order,' if you will, and chooses to continue violating. So that's why he goes.

I don't know the NCAA rulebook, so I won't argue the 'shall keep a copy' part, but I would venture to guess there's no written specific that forces an umpire to look at it when the coach trots it out, or even specifies where the copy has to be - if it's in the bottom of your gear bag, back in the change room, well, there you go.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I believe the NCAA rulebook states that a copy shall or should be at every game.

The MLB book states umpires should keep the book with them at all times. Do you walk onto a field with it in your back pocket?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by yawetag

The MLB book states umpires should keep the book with them at all times. Do you walk onto a field with it in your back pocket?

I believe it also says the umpire should carry a resin bag out to the pitcher's mound before the start of every game.

[kylejt]

For what it's worth, LL rules also state that the umpire shall carry the book.

Yeah, that's not happening.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I believe it also says the umpire should carry a resin bag out to the pitcher's mound before the start of every game.

Not any more. I think this was changed 3-5 years ago.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by yawetag

The MLB book states umpires should keep the book with them at all times. Do you walk onto a field with it in your back pocket?

Never walked on the field anywhere with it in my back pocket, nor did I imply that anyone should.

But just in case you couldn't get the crux of what I was saying, try this.

If your ego lacks the self confidence as an official that a coach walking on the field with a rule book is so totally offensive to you that your "dumping any coach that brings a rule book to me to question a call", then your part of the problem and not the solution. Unapproachable, arrogant, and just not cut out to be a good official.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by jicecone

If your ego lacks the self confidence as an official that a coach walking on the field with a rule book is so totally offensive to you that your "dumping any coach that brings a rule book to me to question a call", then your part of the problem and not the solution. Unapproachable, arrogant, and just not cut out to be a good official.

Notice I also prefaced it by saying this doesn't apply to the "youngest ages of players." My point is that a coach of a teen-aged team knows better than to bring a rule book on the field. He's getting a warning, then he's getting ejected if he doesn't put the book back in his pocket or on the bench.

If he wants to discuss the way I handled a situation, that's great. Let's discuss it. If he then still feels like I didn't follow the rules, he can protest the game at that point. Bringing a rule book to me does nothing but give the appearance that I don't know what I'm doing.

Would you like it if your boss paraded your department's SOPs through the office before stopping at your desk, then spending 5 minutes telling you (in a voice where everyone can hear) that you're doing your job incorrectly?

I'll ignore the personal attacks.

[bniu]

Originally Posted by jicecone

If your ego lacks the self confidence as an official that a coach walking on the field with a rule book is so totally offensive to you that your "dumping any coach that brings a rule book to me to question a call", then your part of the problem and not the solution. Unapproachable, arrogant, and just not cut out to be a good official.

depends on how the coach does it. Normally, they do it in a way to show up the umpire and that gets them dumped.
One coach I know would have just a small rules page on his clipboard and quietly walk over and make it look like he's doing a lineup change or some other administrative stuff, and he does it in a perfectly civil and discreet manner and only does it occasionally, never gets ejected or warned. Even better is he keeps the technique to himself so no one else in the park has a clue that he's questioning a rule

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by bniu

depends on how the coach does it. Normally, they do it in a way to show up the umpire and that gets them dumped.
One coach I know would have just a small rules page on his clipboard and quietly walk over and make it look like he's doing a lineup change or some other administrative stuff, and he does it in a perfectly civil and discreet manner and only does it occasionally, never gets ejected or warned. Even better is he keeps the technique to himself so no one else in the park has a clue that he's questioning a rule

I agree and I would think that the owner of the quote would too however I was reponding to the qoute literaly.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I believe the NCAA rulebook states that a copy shall or should be at every game. When I was doing College ball, If I ejected a coach for bringing a rule boo,k I know I would have received a call from my assignor asking me what rule violation was the coach ejected for.

Why did you work for an assignor who had never umpired?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Matt

Why did you work for an assignor who had never umpired?

It's worse sometimes. I worked for a college assignor who umpired for many years. As soon as he became the assignor he immediately started taking the side of the rats to show them and the conference commissioner that he wasn't an apologist for the umpires.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Matt

Why did you work for an assignor who had never umpired?

The assignor was very experienced.

You would understand were I was coming from, if you ever had to sit on a disciplanary committee that recommended wether any more action should be taken against someone that was ejected from a contest, or if the ejection was sufficient.

You have to determine the degree of the rule infraction that was violated and whether or not the official acted within his/hers authority so provided in the rulebook also. I have seen coaches and players receive additional games, suspended and sometimes removed from the league.

By the same token, it is sometimes hard to make these decisions when you have an official that abuses his/hers authority, or provokes the action for which you would like to discipline someone for. Believe, me the assignor will be one of the first that get a phone call and we all know what flows downhill.

I have been in both positions and have always stood behind my officials but sometimes some officials can make that very difficult. That was my point.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jicecone

The assignor was very experienced.

You would understand were I was coming from, if you ever had to sit on a disciplanary committee that recommended wether any more action should be taken against someone that was ejected from a contest, or if the ejection was sufficient.

You have to determine the degree of the rule infraction that was violated and whether or not the official acted within his/hers authority so provided in the rulebook also. I have seen coaches and players receive additional games, suspended and sometimes removed from the league.

By the same token, it is sometimes hard to make these decisions when you have an official that abuses his/hers authority, or provokes the action for which you would like to discipline someone for. Believe, me the assignor will be one of the first that get a phone call and we all know what flows downhill.

I have been in both positions and have always stood behind my officials but sometimes some officials can make that very difficult. That was my point.

I empathize with you, but if that was your point, you failed.