Parent Etiquette

[ozzy6900]

I do not agree with a coach bringing a rulebook out on the field under any circumstances. My son was faced with the same situation when he was 15 and he told the coach, "If you come out here with that book in your hand, we will not discuss anything and you will have to leave. Your team needs you, so I suggest that we meet after the game for your rules clinic.". The coach turned on his heals and headed to the dugout. He spotted me in the stands and said, "He's a chip off the old block!".

When a coach brings a rulebook out on the field, he is undermining the official. It doesn't matter if the official is 14 or he is the official for that game. He might be 14, but as an official, his ruling or call is final, just as mine would be.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I have a suggestion for you and your son. It might be a good idea to teach him to allow a manager to show him a rule in the rule book, even if he's confident that he's 100% right on the ruling. I don't normally recommend allowing a manager to pull the rule book out on the field, but I think that for a 14 year old umpire, it will help keep him out of trouble. As soon as he tells the manager that he's not going to be discussing the rule book, in the manager and other coaches eyes, he just told them that he doesn't want to be bothered with the facts.

Tim, I normally agree with you, but this is horrible advice. Except for the youngest ages of players (not umpires), I'm dumping any coach that brings a rule book to me to question a call. A coach has three options if he doesn't like a situation: (1) Protest, (2) Shut up, (3) Get ejected. For the younger years, I can see the dad/coach not knowing how bad of a situation it is, and will warn him to take the book back.

If his son wants to say "Coach, you need to go back to the bench and find the rule yourself. If you really feel I'm wrong now, you can file a protest before I put the ball back in play."

[BigUmp56]

You and I, as well as most of the partners we work with, have the luxury of "appearing" to be seasoned umpires when we step on the field. And I think that's why we don't get too much crap when we send a coach back to his bench to NOT bring the rule book out again, or depending on the level of play, we can send him to the showers, parking lot, or Lazy Boy and Budweiser for the rest of the day if they pull one out at all.

I don't know that it works that way for a 14 year old kid.

Tim.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

You and I, as well as most of the partners we work with, have the luxury of "appearing" to be seasoned umpires when we step on the field. And I think that's why we don't get too much crap when we send a coach back to his bench to NOT bring the rule book out again, or depending on the level of play, we can send him to the showers, parking lot, or Lazy Boy and Budweiser for the rest of the day if they pull one out at all.

I don't know that it works that way for a 14 year old kid.

Tim.

But, for the 14-year old to be really effective, and in-charge on the field, it HAS to work that way; and the BOD or other "Higher Authority" HAS to back him up.

Otherwise, the 14 year old ump will be steamrollered on a regular basis by "adult" rats, with and without Rulebooks in tow.

This is the toughest part of having teenagers officiate: getting both them and the adults used to the concept that the teens are IN CHARGE and due the exact same deference that an adult doing the same job is entitled to [and demands] as a matter of course.

[ozzy6900]

Hey, if the Rat has a problem with the rules, he could always protest!

[Steven Tyler]

I was doing a 12 yr select game one time with a R2 only We had a CI and I advanced the runner to 3B as from behind the plate it looked like trying a steal. Most likely the reason for the interference. The batter hit a little dribbler to F4 and was out on the play. After calling time, I gave the offense their option on the play. Naturally they took runners at 3B and 1B. The defense was certain that R2 had to return to 2B as the ball became dead on the play.

He was cordial about it. No big demonstration. Later on his wife returned to the field with a rule book. He came to me between innings with it and pointed out the rule citation in Rule 7. I then took the book from him and flipped to Rule 6.

I got a thank you very much, and now I know for sure.

[justanotherblue]

I would hope you're giving these kids some rules knowledge as well as a test. I'm with Ozzy, no rule book on my field any age. If I was the kid, it would be hey coach, how did you do on that rules test, I got a 98.

[frozenrope22]

The rule in question was a park rule specifically addressed in preseason coaches meeting AND umpire training. My son didn't need to see the rule book as he was able to quote it to the coach without reading it. The coach told him his interpretation was incorrect and my son told him that is how it was explained in the umpire meeting and that is how he was going to administer it.

My son reviewed the situation with his trainer after the game and his trainer told him he did just fine. Both for his interpretation and sending the coach back without reading the rule book.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Tim, I normally agree with you, but this is horrible advice. Except for the youngest ages of players (not umpires), I'm dumping any coach that brings a rule book to me to question a call. A coach has three options if he doesn't like a situation: (1) Protest, (2) Shut up, (3) Get ejected. For the younger years, I can see the dad/coach not knowing how bad of a situation it is, and will warn him to take the book back.

If his son wants to say "Coach, you need to go back to the bench and find the rule yourself. If you really feel I'm wrong now, you can file a protest before I put the ball back in play."

I believe the NCAA rulebook states that a copy shall or should be at every game. When I was doing College ball, If I ejected a coach for bringing a rule boo,k I know I would have received a call from my assignor asking me what rule violation was the coach ejected for.

I agree that most Coaches intentions are to try an show up the official but, the fact that he came out on the field to discuss anything can be construed as that also. What does carrying a book or pad or anything else have to do with it.

There have been times when a coach has approached me with a rulebook and I savor the moment. Why? Because I get to actually display my knowledge of the rules and in my own devious way turn the cards on him and shows his *** up.

If getting respect were as easy as Aretha Franklin would lead us to believe, we'd all be singing on the Field.The most respected officials exude unpretentious confidence. They combine decisiveness, knowledge of the game, professionalism, well-developed social skills and a calm demeanor that communicates itself to players, coaches, officials and fans.

Of course, if I am approached in a disrespectful manner, I also will have to resort to the rules of removal alloted me in the rulebook. See Ya.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by jicecone

When I was doing College ball, If I ejected a coach for bringing a rule boo,k I know I would have received a call from my assignor asking me what rule violation was the coach ejected for.

Maybe it's just semantics, but what I might say to said assignor is "I ejected him for not following an umpire directive." I get the point - nothing in the rule book says it can't be brought on the field - so it's more like:

"Skip, take that rulebook back to the dugout"
Skip keeps coming.
Whoosh.

He's been given a 'direct order,' if you will, and chooses to continue violating. So that's why he goes.

I don't know the NCAA rulebook, so I won't argue the 'shall keep a copy' part, but I would venture to guess there's no written specific that forces an umpire to look at it when the coach trots it out, or even specifies where the copy has to be - if it's in the bottom of your gear bag, back in the change room, well, there you go.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I believe the NCAA rulebook states that a copy shall or should be at every game.

The MLB book states umpires should keep the book with them at all times. Do you walk onto a field with it in your back pocket?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by yawetag

The MLB book states umpires should keep the book with them at all times. Do you walk onto a field with it in your back pocket?

I believe it also says the umpire should carry a resin bag out to the pitcher's mound before the start of every game.

[kylejt]

For what it's worth, LL rules also state that the umpire shall carry the book.

Yeah, that's not happening.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I believe the NCAA rulebook states that a copy shall or should be at every game. When I was doing College ball, If I ejected a coach for bringing a rule boo,k I know I would have received a call from my assignor asking me what rule violation was the coach ejected for.

Why did you work for an assignor who had never umpired?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I believe it also says the umpire should carry a resin bag out to the pitcher's mound before the start of every game.

Not any more. I think this was changed 3-5 years ago.