WP on ball four, does run count?

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

If you found it to be interesting, I'm sure the rest of us will as well. Thank you for being so considerate and thinking of us.

It is at least as interesting as spending 3 or 4 pages on what is the best shade of gray for an ump's pants, IMHO. But I guess you real umpires have different priorities. From the looks of the way the game is being ump'ed at the MLB level, it certainly shows. But they sure look cute in their blue polos and charcoal gray pants and twin ball sacks. Carry on....

[SAump]

Game over.

4.09a states once a run has legally scored, it cannot be erased, no matter how hard one tries.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by SAump

Game over.

4.09a states once a run has legally scored, it cannot be erased, no matter how hard one tries.

VM protests game (like Nemec says he should have).

ETA: there are lots of ways "legal runs" can get erased on appeal.
ETA: 4.09(b)...the umpire shall not declare the game over until the runner has touched home and the B/R has touched first [it the situation of a game ending on a bases loaded walk or HBP].

[SAump]

Remember the ball 4, R2 overruns 3rd base and is tagged out before R3 scores case play? Ruling run scores, out ends the inning.

Same ruling I have in this play, run scores, out at first on appeal. But that would not erase the winning run.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by SAump

Remember the ball 4, R2 overruns 3rd base and is tagged out before R3 scores case play? Ruling run scores, out ends the inning.

Same ruling I have in this play, run scores, out at first on appeal. But that would not erase the winning run.

I also remember a rule that says a run cannot score if the third out is made by retiring the B/R before he touches first.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

Remember the ball 4, R2 overruns 3rd base and is tagged out before R3 scores case play? Ruling run scores, out ends the inning.

Same ruling I have in this play, run scores, out at first on appeal. But that would not erase the winning run.

In Larry's play, the out at first (if there is one) is the third out of the inning, so no runs would score. Surely you can see how an out at first is different from a non-force out at third.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

VM protests game (like Nemec says he should have).

ETA: there are lots of ways "legal runs" can get erased on appeal.
ETA: 4.09(b)...the umpire shall not declare the game over until the runner has touched home and the B/R has touched first [it the situation of a game ending on a bases loaded walk or HBP].

Recently, similar play in state playoff game. Protest on B/R's actions was not allowed to erase winning run. Perhaps someone can provide newspaper clipping.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

It is at least as interesting as spending 3 or 4 pages on what is the best shade of gray for an ump's pants, IMHO. But I guess you real umpires have different priorities. From the looks of the way the game is being ump'ed at the MLB level, it certainly shows. But they sure look cute in their blue polos and charcoal gray pants and twin ball sacks. Carry on....

I assume that's sarcasm. If so, it is certainly misdirected. You continue to brighten this forum and enlighten posters with such amazing posts and supportive opinon by such world recognized experts as David Nemec. I've never understood why MLB hasn't hired him as a rules interpreter and consultant.

Good work.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I assume that's sarcasm. If so, it is certainly misdirected. You continue to brighten this forum and enlighten posters with such amazing posts and supportive opinon by such world recognized experts as David Nemec. I've never understood why MLB hasn't hired him as a rules interpreter and consultant.

Good work.

I think it is a universal consensus that the OBR rule book could be written a lot better. Sometimes it isn't such a bad idea to go outside the box to make an improvement. I recall avidly reading the Bill James Baseball Abstracts when they first came out, what was it, about three decades ago? He was ridiculed and scoffed at. He "never played the game, what could he possibly know?" It turns out he knew a lot and he literally changed the face of the game.

[UmpTTS43]

Concerning original op, run would not score

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

I think it is a universal consensus that the OBR rule book could be written a lot better. Sometimes it isn't such a bad idea to go outside the box to make an improvement. I recall avidly reading the Bill James Baseball Abstracts when they first came out, what was it, about three decades ago? He was ridiculed and scoffed at. He "never played the game, what could he possibly know?" It turns out he knew a lot and he literally changed the face of the game.

You are not an umpire so we don't care what your opinions or theories about baseball rules are.

[aceholleran]

Had one in LL, bottom 6, tie game, sacks juiced. Ball 4 to B1. R3 touches home; dugout erupts. B1 does not touch first, but stays in live ball territory.

I am U2, but I stay on the field, watching B1. Finally, someone tells him to go touch first. As he runs to 1B, F2--honest--throws to F3, who tags B1 before he touches the sack.

As soon as B1 hit the bag, I hightailed it out of there.

In the parking lot, VC (very civilly) asked me why B1 wasn't called out on the tag. I said, "New rule, coach. When a batter gets four balls, he gets to proceed, unmolested, to first base."

Slight chuckle.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

It is at least as interesting as spending 3 or 4 pages on what is the best shade of gray for an ump's pants, IMHO. But I guess you real umpires have different priorities. From the looks of the way the game is being ump'ed at the MLB level, it certainly shows. But they sure look cute in their blue polos and charcoal gray pants and twin ball sacks. Carry on....

Keep playing this song - you're the only one playing it. Looking at the most recent 25 threads, exactly one was about uniform, and one more about equipment. Drop it.

PS - no run. No thought required.

[BayStateRef]

I had nearly this play a couple of years ago and posted it here. Tie game. Bottom 7. R3 with 2 outs. 3-1 count. Ball 4 bounces in the dirt and goes to the backstop. R3 comes in to score.

B/R gets about 20 feet toward 1st base when his dugout (1st base side) empties to celebrate the win. He joins the celebration and never reaches 1st base (and also never makes it to the dugout).

There was much debate as to whether the B/R can be called out for abandonment (and at what point that happens.) Best advice I had from this forum: as soon as I see the dugout empty, yell, "Stop. The game is not over."

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

It is at least as interesting as spending 3 or 4 pages on what is the best shade of gray for an ump's pants, IMHO. But I guess you real umpires have different priorities. From the looks of the way the game is being ump'ed at the MLB level, it certainly shows. But they sure look cute in their blue polos and charcoal gray pants and twin ball sacks. Carry on....

Any time you do not like the way this forum runs, you are welcome to go elsewhere.