Double play to end inning (one tag, one force)

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Correct. If the third out is a force play or the batter-runner retired at 1B, then no runs can score.

Not to be nit-picky here but you probably should say "or the batter-runner retired before having safely reached 1B." You could be retired "at 1B" after having reached it safely and it not be a force out and the run would count (see comment on OBR 7.08 j )

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

Not to be nit-picky here but you probably should say "or the batter-runner retired before having safely reached 1B." You could be retired "at 1B" after having reached it safely and it not be a force out and the run would count (see comment on OBR 7.08 j )

Not to be nit-picky here but, it is never a force out at first base.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Not to be nit-picky here but, it is never a force out at first base.

Oh God, please don't start that again! Last week at the ABUA site was enough!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by lawump

Oh God, please don't start that again! Last week at the ABUA site was enough!

Only for certain individuals

[Larry1953]

Lol...
To explain the origin of the myth, when coaching younger levels, the kids don't know or often forget the force out "mechanic" and in the heat of battle resort to the tag which they all know is good for an out - except of course when the ball gets knocked out of the glove and everybody is safe. A quick reminder, "OK guys, force at any base... Bobby[F5], play it like a first baseman if the play comes to you....OK, coach". That always seemed to help a bit. The kids seem to understand how the "force mechanic" works at 1B from a young age and that is more important then than parsing technical definitions.

Rich, I just couldn't let you down :-)

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

" You could be retired "at 1B" after having reached it safely and it not be a force out and the run would count (see comment on OBR 7.08 j )

Relative to this statement and the batter-runner going to first, you can not have a force out there.

Of course I am open to being proven different. Go for it.

[rbmartin]

True. It may not meet the full definition of a force out as specified in section 2.00 but the mechanics for achieving the "out" are the same.

Although OBR 10.12 (d1) uses the phrase "the fielder recovers the ball in time to force out a runner at any base", thus not specifically excluding 1st base from being called a "force out". Maybe we should chastise the authors of OBR as well.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

True. It may not meet the full definition of a force out as specified in section 2.00 but the mechanics for achieving the "out" are the same.

Although OBR 10.12 (d1) uses the phrase "the fielder recovers the ball in time to force out a runner at any base", thus not specifically excluding 1st base from being called a "force out". Maybe we should chastise the authors of OBR as well.

Might as well - they made enough other mistakes!

JJ

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

True. It may not meet the full definition of a force out as specified in section 2.00 but the mechanics for achieving the "out" are the same.

Although OBR 10.12 (d1) uses the phrase "the fielder recovers the ball in time to force out a runner at any base", thus not specifically excluding 1st base from being called a "force out". Maybe we should chastise the authors of OBR as well.

Rule 10 is the scoring rule. It just tells the less than rules aware person up in the press box how to give credit for something. It has NO bearing on the definitions and playing part of the rules.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Rule 10 is the scoring rule. It just tells the less than rules aware person up in the press box how to give credit for something. It has NO bearing on the definitions and playing part of the rules.

I know that. I only refrenced it to point out that refering to a normal out at 1st as a "force out" is not that unusual, event for those well-versed in baseball. I guess what I'm saying is It's not worth arguing about.

[Larry1953]

Put-outs at first probably happen about 10 or more times per team per game. You'd think they could have come up with OBR 2.00 word that would have covered the action. It quacks like a force and waddles like a force, but it is not a force. Maybe they could call it a "broaf" - batter/runner out at first. OK, just kidding, don't bring the broadsides :-)