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Old Thu Jan 06, 2005, 03:17pm
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Situation: Runner on 1st (R1), Batter hits fly to short right field. R1 hesitates to see if ball will be caught. Batter/Runner passes him while rounding 1st base. Right fielder catches ball on bounce and throws to 2nd base for force out. Question--is force removed when Batter/Runner is declared out for passing R1?
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Old Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:00pm
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OBR............yes
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Old Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:37pm
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Think of it this was - if the batter is out, just who is forcing R1?
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Old Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:45pm
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All force plays are off when the BR is called out.
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Old Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:50pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by LDUB
All force plays are off when the BR is called out.
I thought the out call on the batter may be a delayed call; therefore the force would still be in effect until the action concluded. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 09:59am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rsteele

I thought the out call on the batter may be a delayed call; therefore the force would still be in effect until the action concluded.
Nope, no delay here. The moment the BR passes R1, he's out.

Manny
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 10:55am
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If I understand correctly from my (old) J/R, if the batted ball is caught, you rule BR OUT on the catch.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 07:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by nine01c
If I understand correctly from my (old) J/R, if the batted ball is caught, you rule BR OUT on the catch.
You would not need J/R to make that call.
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Old Fri Jan 07, 2005, 08:37pm
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Odd wrinkle on this play: in NCAA (unless there has been a change within the past 2 years), even with BR out for passing R1, if R1 then proceeded to miss 2B and then was called out on appeal, his out for missing 2B would be considered a force play (the force was in effect when the play began). (So if the play started with 1 out and a runner on 3B, any run scored by the runner from 3B would be nullified.

In Fed and OBR, R1's out for missing 2B would not be a force out.
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Old Sat Jan 08, 2005, 12:49am
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Hmmm...if the BR is out on the catch in right field, but you've already called him out the second he passes R1, does R1 still have to tag up on the caught fly ball?

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Old Sat Jan 08, 2005, 09:23am
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Quote:
Originally posted by JJ
Hmmm...if the BR is out on the catch in right field, but you've already called him out the second he passes R1, does R1 still have to tag up on the caught fly ball?

Not when it bounces first, before the catch. (Please refer to the initial post)
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Old Sat Jan 08, 2005, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JJ
Hmmm...if the BR is out on the catch in right field, but you've already called him out the second he passes R1, does R1 still have to tag up on the caught fly ball?

This is the reason I mentioned that batter is OUT on the catch, not the passing of R1. Umpire makes ruling on the catch, ignores the BR passing. Yes, R1 does have to retouch in this case. I checked J/R because I didn't see where this was addressed specifically in OBR (although it may be).
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Old Sun Jan 09, 2005, 11:46am
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Hmmmm...again. If I see a runner pass another runner, I call him out immediately. I don't wait to see if whatever ball he hit is caught or not. I was just looking for a reference that R1 still has to tag up, even though the BR was out for passing (I don't necessarily disagree with that). Anyone?
Oh, sorry about missing the intial post about the ball bouncing. I guess my question could have been posted in another thread since it deals with a caught fly ball...
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Old Sun Jan 09, 2005, 04:03pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JJ
Hmmmm...again. If I see a runner pass another runner, I call him out immediately. I don't wait to see if whatever ball he hit is caught or not. I was just looking for a reference that R1 still has to tag up, even though the BR was out for passing (I don't necessarily disagree with that). Anyone?
Oh, sorry about missing the intial post about the ball bouncing. I guess my question could have been posted in another thread since it deals with a caught fly ball...
Page 45, 9th Ed of J/R - "A force is removed against a runner when a trailing runner or the batter-runner is out".

Item 245, 2004 BRD - "A force is removed whenver a following runner is "put out on a force play.""

These only apply on a ball that bounced. On one that was caught in flight R1 would still need to tag up, even if BR passed him.
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Old Sun Jan 09, 2005, 04:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JJ
Hmmmm...again. If I see a runner pass another runner, I call him out immediately. I don't wait to see if whatever ball he hit is caught or not. I was just looking for a reference that R1 still has to tag up, even though the BR was out for passing (I don't necessarily disagree with that). Anyone?
Oh, sorry about missing the intial post about the ball bouncing. I guess my question could have been posted in another thread since it deals with a caught fly ball...
OBR 7.10(a) mereley says that the runner is out on appeal when he fails to retouch on a caught fly. It says nothing about whether the BR is out on the catch or on some other rule (e.g., infield fly).
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