Force Play?

rsteele · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 06, 2005, 03:17pm

Situation: Runner on 1st (R1), Batter hits fly to short right field. R1 hesitates to see if ball will be caught. Batter/Runner passes him while rounding 1st base. Right fielder catches ball on bounce and throws to 2nd base for force out. Question--is force removed when Batter/Runner is declared out for passing R1?

nine01c · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:00pm

OBR............yes

Rich Ives · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:37pm

Think of it this was - if the batter is out, just who is forcing R1?

LDUB · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:45pm

All force plays are off when the BR is called out.

rsteele · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 06, 2005, 05:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by LDUB
All force plays are off when the BR is called out.

I thought the out call on the batter may be a delayed call; therefore the force would still be in effect until the action concluded. Thanks for the clarification.

Manny A · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 09:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by rsteele

I thought the out call on the batter may be a delayed call; therefore the force would still be in effect until the action concluded.

Nope, no delay here. The moment the BR passes R1, he's out.

Manny

nine01c · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 10:55am

If I understand correctly from my (old) J/R, if the batted ball is caught, you rule BR OUT on the catch.

DG · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 07:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by nine01c
If I understand correctly from my (old) J/R, if the batted ball is caught, you rule BR OUT on the catch.

You would not need J/R to make that call.

greymule · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 07, 2005, 08:37pm

Odd wrinkle on this play: in NCAA (unless there has been a change within the past 2 years), even with BR out for passing R1, if R1 then proceeded to miss 2B and then was called out on appeal, his out for missing 2B would be considered a force play (the force was in effect when the play began). (So if the play started with 1 out and a runner on 3B, any run scored by the runner from 3B would be nullified.

In Fed and OBR, R1's out for missing 2B would not be a force out.

JJ · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 08, 2005, 12:49am

Hmmm...if the BR is out on the catch in right field, but you've already called him out the second he passes R1, does R1 still have to tag up on the caught fly ball?

Thom Coste · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 08, 2005, 09:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by JJ
Hmmm...if the BR is out on the catch in right field, but you've already called him out the second he passes R1, does R1 still have to tag up on the caught fly ball?

Not when it bounces first, before the catch. (Please refer to the initial post)

nine01c · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 08, 2005, 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JJ
Hmmm...if the BR is out on the catch in right field, but you've already called him out the second he passes R1, does R1 still have to tag up on the caught fly ball?

This is the reason I mentioned that batter is OUT on the catch, not the passing of R1. Umpire makes ruling on the catch, ignores the BR passing. Yes, R1 does have to retouch in this case. I checked J/R because I didn't see where this was addressed specifically in OBR (although it may be).

JJ · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 09, 2005, 11:46am

Hmmmm...again. If I see a runner pass another runner, I call him out immediately. I don't wait to see if whatever ball he hit is caught or not. I was just looking for a reference that R1 still has to tag up, even though the BR was out for passing (I don't necessarily disagree with that). Anyone?
Oh, sorry about missing the intial post about the ball bouncing. I guess my question could have been posted in another thread since it deals with a caught fly ball...

DG · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 09, 2005, 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JJ
Hmmmm...again. If I see a runner pass another runner, I call him out immediately. I don't wait to see if whatever ball he hit is caught or not. I was just looking for a reference that R1 still has to tag up, even though the BR was out for passing (I don't necessarily disagree with that). Anyone?
Oh, sorry about missing the intial post about the ball bouncing. I guess my question could have been posted in another thread since it deals with a caught fly ball...

Page 45, 9th Ed of J/R - "A force is removed against a runner when a trailing runner or the batter-runner is out".

Item 245, 2004 BRD - "A force is removed whenver a following runner is "put out on a force play.""

These only apply on a ball that bounced. On one that was caught in flight R1 would still need to tag up, even if BR passed him.

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 09, 2005, 04:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JJ
Hmmmm...again. If I see a runner pass another runner, I call him out immediately. I don't wait to see if whatever ball he hit is caught or not. I was just looking for a reference that R1 still has to tag up, even though the BR was out for passing (I don't necessarily disagree with that). Anyone?
Oh, sorry about missing the intial post about the ball bouncing. I guess my question could have been posted in another thread since it deals with a caught fly ball...

OBR 7.10(a) mereley says that the runner is out on appeal when he fails to retouch on a caught fly. It says nothing about whether the BR is out on the catch or on some other rule (e.g., infield fly).