WSH - CWS Estabrook reversed...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Hardly. He was in poor positioning and didn't see the play at all (he was waaayyyy angled out from the play), which is why he ruled it a tag for an out.

The lengths at which people on this forum go to defend guys who err never ceases to amaze me.

I have seen so many umpires moving to an angle significantly less than 90° that I'm thinking there must be a new mechanic coming up from PBUC. They move way off the line toward 2B and look back at F3 and the base.

[MikeStrybel]

All that really matters in the end is that the White Sox lost. Beautiful.

[UMP25]

Bite me. Sounds like a disgruntled Flubs fan.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I have seen so many umpires moving to an angle significantly less than 90° that I'm thinking there must be a new mechanic coming up from PBUC. They move way off the line toward 2B and look back at F3 and the base.

One of the umpires in our association is current assigned to the minor leagues. I've got a message into him to see what PBUC's recommended mechanic on this is since you brought it up.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UMP25

One of the umpires in our association is current assigned to the minor leagues. I've got a message into him to see what PBUC's recommended mechanic on this is since you brought it up.

Cool. I'll be glad to know -- as I say, I see this all the time now.

[TussAgee11]

PBUC says "shoot for 90 degrees, but if you go a little further, its better than not going far enough".

Naturally, everybody goes a little further and wider.

[UMP25]

90 degrees on a swipe tag? That's insane, just insane. Never mind that it makes it virtually impossible to SEE the tag.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by UMP25

90 degrees on a swipe tag? That's insane, just insane. Never mind that it makes it virtually impossible to SEE the tag.

90 degrees is where you start. You can adjust from there with a step or two depending on where the throw is.

[UMP25]

A step or two is one thing--that's understandable. However, Estabrook was more than a "step or two."

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Cool. I'll be glad to know -- as I say, I see this all the time now.

He Emailed me to explain that PBUC teaches to get a 90-degree angle to the throw and adjust accordingly, which was the way I was taught at school, so it's nice to see things haven't changed in that regard. For swipe tags, one is taught to line up in a straight line with the fielder, runner, and tag in order to best view the tag attempt.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I'm thinking there must be a new mechanic coming up from PBUC.

There is a new mechanic with regard to three and four man crews...at least some PBUC evaluators are preaching to go one step further than where you would stop and be at a 90-degree angle. I literally stayed up until 2 a.m. debating it with two PBUC evaluators this past off-season. (My wife was horrified when she saw what we were doing to our living room.) The red book is being re-written, too. Don't know when it will be out, and I don't know if they will change the 90-degree mechanic in that book (for two-man crews).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by lawump

There is a new mechanic with regard to three and four man crews...at least some PBUC evaluators are preaching to go one step further than where you would stop and be at a 90-degree angle. I literally stayed up until 2 a.m. debating it with two PBUC evaluators this past off-season. (My wife was horrified when she saw what we were doing to our living room.) The red book is being re-written, too. Don't know when it will be out, and I don't know if they will change the 90-degree mechanic in that book (for two-man crews).

It seems to me that they are moving in the wrong direction ...

[Durham]

Law, did they share with you why they felt it was a better look?

[UMP25]

My MiLB colleague further Emailed me today, saying:

The red book says 90 degrees, or as close to 90 degrees as possible, but that's not really what they want us to do anymore. It seems like a smaller angle is what is expected, which does take you farther away from the line. Also, we were told last year that an updated red book would be out this year but that did not happen. Whenever the new book comes out I would expect it to say to get an angle less than 90 degrees.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by UMP25

My MiLB colleague further Emailed me today, saying:

Some of what you post is slightly different from what I hear from AA an AAA MiLB umpires. Part of this can be explained by the practice in which different PBUC evaluators, from whom MiLB umpires get much of their guidance and changes, cover different leagues/levels.

What level is your colleague currently working?