About the 234 known OBR errors

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What if R1 slide past (not touching) the base as F4 bobbled the throw. R1 gets up and tries for third where he's tagged out. Do you now allow an appeal that he missed second? How (or why) is that different from the OP?

Yes. It's different (in J/R world) because the appeal occurs during relaxed action in your case but not the OP.

IMO, it's not any feature of the tag of R1 that matters, but the nature of the appeal. I have a problem with granting an appeal during a runner's effort to correct his baserunning error.

I'm ambivalent about this issue, and glad it rarely arises. I've already noted that J/R world is pure interpretation here, and I respect umpires who insist on a stricter interpretation of the letter of 7.10(b). I just think J/R is more in the spirit of the game than such an interpretation.

Here's a bigger problem case for me: tie game, bottom of the last inning, bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter grounds to F6, who flips to F4 for the third out. F4 bobbles the ball as R1 slides past 2B without touching it. After R3 crosses the plate, F4 gathers the ball and tags R1 off the base for the third out. Do we allow an advantageous 4th out appeal in this case? If so, we go to extra innings; if not the game is over!

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Here's a bigger problem case for me: tie game, bottom of the last inning, bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter grounds to F6, who flips to F4 for the third out. F4 bobbles the ball as R1 slides past 2B without touching it. After R3 crosses the plate, F4 gathers the ball and tags R1 off the base for the third out. Do we allow an advantageous 4th out appeal in this case? If so, we go to extra innings; if not the game is over!

Depends on ruleset:
In FED, all the defense has to say is R1 missed 2B. Play the next inning.
In OBR, a proper appeal has to be made. Depending if the appeal is made properly or not, we may be going home or playing the next inning.

[Larry1953]

What if in both cases, that instead of tagging the runner, F6 tags the base while shouting "that's still a force!"? Hard to see how he could suppress the ingrained urge to tag the runner off the bag, but it would seem a proper way to negate the run.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

What if in both cases, that instead of tagging the runner, F6 tags the base while shouting "that's still a force!"? Hard to see how he could suppress the ingrained urge to tag the runner off the bag, but it would seem a proper way to negate the run.

F6 would get more credence if he/she told the BU the runner missed the base. Then the appeal would be apparent. BTW, no shouting needed.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

What if in both cases, that instead of tagging the runner, F6 tags the base while shouting "that's still a force!"? Hard to see how he could suppress the ingrained urge to tag the runner off the bag, but it would seem a proper way to negate the run.

That's not a force because the runner is assumed to have touched the base unless / until there's an appeal.

And, the various answers to all these questions depends on whether you subscribe to J/R's interpretation.

I, for one, don't, in this instance.

[Larry1953]

Thanks, Bob. I think I've finally seen the light, at least as far as the J/R rationale goes. I think the scenario you described about the bobbled throw could quite possibly happen. It would be interesting to see what the on field call would be. I'm not quite sure how J/R can admit that the rules "theoretically" support the no run out call but then come up with an opposite interpretation. Rules aren't really a "theory" of anything. They are logical posits from which deductions can be made. Anyway, thanks for your replies, they were very helpful.

[SAump]

The force, catch or tag, was removed with a loud emphatic safe call at 2B.
The runner must be tagged out while off base.
No missed base appeal allowed.

OBR 7.08e, 7.08j and 4.09a

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by SAump

The force, catch or tag, was removed with a loud emphatic safe call at 2B.
The runner must be tagged out while off base.
No missed base appeal allowed.

OBR 7.08e, 7.08j and 4.09a

That wasn't mentioned in either scenario. Umpires don't make a loud, emphatic safe call if the runner misses the base when a play is being made at that base, do they?