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Wed Sep 06, 2000, 04:28pm
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I went over to the Valley League, a NCAA wooden bat league, this summer and had rough game. 3-1 game in the bottom of the 9th. The home team had been belly-aching about pitches on and off all game. They are in a position to tie the game. Batter says loudly common lets go while turning around on me...I say turn around and swing the bat I have been there all day (the pitch was right at the top of the belt)...he says no you haven't and the bench erupts...I look over there and one of the players is giving me a retarded look ( his eyes were crossed and everything)...I continue looking for about 5 to 10 seconds to give them a chance to settle down...It gets worse so I run the retarded player in the dugout...things settle down and the batter says it was still high...I say if you thought that was high wait til the next one...he runs down to the head coach and tells on me...head coach comes down and says why did you threaten to call a ball a strike on my batter...I say I never said I would call anything...he starts pointing at me threatening to come back if I do...I run him...things settle down tying run is at the plate home team still in the game...next pitch just off the black (an inch or less) I call strike three...batter throws fit...I run batter...next batter is from Arizona State and I had warned him about arguing pitches in the 3rd inning...batter fouls off a couple and the third strike is just off the black (an inch or so) and batter draws a line on me...I run batter...I tell the new head coach to keep letting them talk because I'll keep going until there is nobody is left...coach tries to calm dugout down...first base coach comes down and says he wants to protest the game...I tell coach he has no grounds because you can't protest me ejecting someone for arguing balls & strikes...he says what about an umpires integrity, hustle, so on and so on...I eject the first base coach...the next batter grounds out to end the game...owner of team proceeds to tell me how awful I am as he is counting our money out. I might have avoided a couple of ejections but I had bent over backwards throughout the game to accommodate both teams and I had enough. This is the most ejections I have had in a game and they all came about 10 minutes apart.
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Wed Sep 06, 2000, 06:01pm
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quote: FWIW: Seems like a good reason to NOT respond to comments about the strike zone, except maybe "Let's play ball". Once you start defending the zone by saying things like "I've been calling that all day", you open up the flood gates. I don't really think challanging them with comments like "What till you see the next one" work either.. Don't say it, just call it, they may get the message.......
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Wed Sep 06, 2000, 06:23pm
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quote: +++++++++ I've written for years that when a professional coach gets ejected, it's almost always because some umpire kicked a call. That doesn't mean we shouldn't eject them; it means we should give them a little more rope before we hang them. I think Hugo nailed this call right down to the ground. Perhaps the players planted the seeds, but you certainly watered them until they sprouted. I recommend: Don't talk to players when they are questioning you. Just look at them, and keep your mouth closed. Don't say: "That's my zone." Don't say: "Get in the box." Don't say: "Anything." Just stare at the player. You'll be surprised at what happens in your games. Welcome to eUmpire. Be sure to go to our home page and check out all the advantages of becoming a member. ------------------ Papa C Editor, eUmpire
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Wed Sep 06, 2000, 06:23pm
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You say that the home team had been "belly achin'" on and off the whole game and these series of incidents ocurred in the 9th.
Sounds like you missed your opportunity to manage this game by some time. By the ninth inning this should have been handled. By waiting as long as you did and responding in the manner you did you very well might have given the impression that you were ready and looking for a fight. Instead, had you handled the team the first couple of times they were "belly-achin'" it probably would not have grown into the free for all you ended up with. I don't know your level of experience, or if you were having an off day, but umpires with that kind of a game at the "real" NCAA level don't last long around here. ------------------ Co-Moderator, UT
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Wed Sep 06, 2000, 10:43pm
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Did you have a partner in this fun? I've had my share of trouble along the way. I always ask my partner for feedback, and sometimes I get it (a lot of times, it's just "good game".) I had a game recently where my partner was having trouble with his zone (too small, both dimensions) and it made for a rough game. He acknowledged that he'd had a hard time and attributed it to not being willing to call the "high" pitch. If he had asked, I would have told him I thought he needed to widen it too. As it was, I sort of tossed that out, but he wasn't really hearing me; he was still inside his own head, reviewing the game from his own perspective. When I get a lot of grumbling about my zone, I usually do have a problem, either not following the pitches all the way in or squeezing the sides too much. Did both teams complain? Sometimes one is more vociferous, but if my calls are off, there may be an indication from the other side too. If it's just one side, it may be an attitude problem, in which case you probably should have nipped it sooner. But back to my main point, your partner should be able to give you valuable feedback.
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Wed Sep 06, 2000, 11:13pm
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If I'm doing a college game and the batter turns around on me and says ANYTHING disputing me in a loud voice, my response is to tell the batter in a quiet voice that he's done and then go to the manager and ask him for the substitutes name and number 'cause the batter is no longer in this game.
I have been known to tell the catcher "that was a great pitch" if the batter is showing his displeasure at the call in an acceptable manner.
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Thu Sep 07, 2000, 01:46am
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quote: Garth, I must agree. Last MSBL game I did, it was a single, no time limit 9 innings. We are on field at 10 till the start time. Visitors are ready, give me game balls. I walk to home team and tell em to hit the field, lets go! Skipper looks at me and sez, we aint got no start time, it's a single, no time limit. Whoa Nelly! I then said, "you got 3 minutes to put your team on the field, understand? Game balls please". Add water and we have bad start, home gives up 7 runs and F4 is giving me shit on zone, "come on, we aint in the bigs!" B1 and 1 out R1 and R2. BR takes 2 called strikes and looks at 3 in the dirt, then comes a nasty curve that froze his sorry butt, I ring and he pops off. Quickest trigger all year, he just got the "you are" outa his mouth when I dumped him, it was F4( i did not know till later), but we had NO probs after that. My feeling is that at the level of this MSBL/MABL is that you will be tested sooner than later, the sooner ya fix it, the better....chris
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Thu Sep 07, 2000, 08:09am
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...owner of team proceeds to tell me how awful I am as he is counting our money out.
In future as Papa C told me, please space your thoughts as it is much easier to read and comprehend what the author is trying to say. First - Is this customary to pay the umpires at the end of game? Normally, at least in summer ball - we are paid prior to the start of the game - so we do not have to wait around at the end of a game and take add'l flak. Another recommendation would be as follows: I hate to assume anything but from your thread it sounds as if this team was upset about the zone prior to the last inning. Perhaps in the earlier innings, you could have called time and went over and had a private conversation with the coach. In that private meeting, explain hey coach you and your players had their say, lets play ball otherwise players might have an early exit. By talking to the coach in private - you gave him the opportunity to correct the heckling and also informed him - you had enough and ejections would follow. Sometimes, this gets the coaches attention and can have a positive effect. Summer Ball is tough though as the codes of conduct are not as strict as in the regular season. Pete Booth
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Thu Sep 07, 2000, 09:26am
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For the comments about me not handling the situation until the 9th inning. The other team did complain one time throughout the game. In the second inning I pulled my lineup card out then called the head coach over and told him to calm his bench down before I was forced to. He made no attempt to calm things down. I warned two different players early in the game.
I have 5 years of NCAA experience and I have never seen a college team behave this way in regular season. This league is notorious for incidents like this one. The league is supposed to pay before the game but they do whatever they want. One crew only got half a game fee because the game got rained out in the 4th inning. I have not been back for three years until this summer because my partner and I were chased off the field by the coaches and fans of a team that lost due to a forfiet. They surrounded us and would not let us leave and the owner refused to call the police. The forfiet was because the owner was because one of the visiting teams fans was ringing a cow bell and he wanted my partner to make them stop. He came on the field and refused to leave until my partner made the fan leave so after pleading with every coach on the home team my partner forfieted the game. As you can probably tell I won't be back to that league by my choice, I am still in good standing with the supervisor (who also assigns the regular season games). After the game my partner told me that he didn't understand what they were complaining about. I thought I missed two pitches and he told the supervisor that I didn't miss any. My partner was a NCAA veteran (around 15 years experience) and I believe him. I tried to handle things by giving warnings but it didn't work. I gave them a total of three warnings throughout the game. The warnings worked for a couple of innings and then they would start right back up. I probably did fuel the fire a little but like I said I had enough. There were no plays for me to kick and my strike zone was good & consistant throughout the game so I attribute the situation to 75% them and 25% me for saying the wrong things at the wrong time. I believe there would have been at least two ejections had I said nothing. I hope I don't sound like I'm being defensive because I do want to hear what you have to say and I have no hard feelings what whatever criticism you give me. Thanks, WVBLUE
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Thu Sep 07, 2000, 09:51am
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This league is notorious for incidents like this one. The league is supposed to pay before the game but they do whatever they want. One crew only got half a game fee because the game got rained out in the 4th inning.
Does your association have a written contract with this league? Even in summer ball we have a written contract that spells everything out about the fees. In your example, too bad it rained but you should get full fee. In the association I belong to we are paid right up front before game starts. If a downpour should suddenly occur we still get full fair. Contact your assigner and explain your situation to him. You and your partner shouln't have to discuss fees with the owner - that's the assigner's job. As far as this league being notorious for the kinds of things mentioned in your thread - that must be corrected before something bad happens. NCAA has strict conduct rules during regular season - what happens in the summer? thrown by the wayside? Not allowing umpires to leave a game - police should have been called immediately. Depending upon the fees - sounds like this league isn't worth it. Good luck! Pete Booth
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Thu Sep 07, 2000, 11:54am
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I am pretty sure they do have a contract but it is the best summer baseball in the Mid-Atlantic area so I believe the association sometimes bends the rules. I wish there was more I could do but even with 5 years with this group I don't have any say it the workings of association. I live about 5 1/2 hours away from the headquarters (for lack of better term).
I should not have accepted the game but the assignor was in a bind and I wanted to help him. I thought maybe working conditions had improved in that league. I gave the league a second chance but that will be it for me. Thanks, WVBLUE
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Wed Sep 20, 2000, 11:39am
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Valley League
WV;
You are working the third best NCAA summer league in the nation. If you can work there, you can work anywhere. Regular season NCAA places controls on the coaches and players through their university. A summer league has less of a disciplinary system in place so the rhubarbs tend to get out of hand faster. Were you working Waynesboro or Staunton? The coaches there are particularly difficult. They put on a show, at the owner's request, to increase the gate or so that is the rumor. They were probably testing you if they had not seen you before. Bocock is one of the worst jerks but will leave you alone if you stand up to him. If you think that the Valley League is bad for officials now, you should have seen it 5 years ago. Things are much better for us now than they were then. Data
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Tue Oct 03, 2000, 09:27am
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The first incident happened at Staunton in 97. The second this summer in Winchester. I have had time to reflect on the situation this summer. I think the only real mistake I made was to smart off to the batter. I am convinced that he would have continued to run his mouth and I would have ejected him and his head coach but I lost control of my emotions and lowered myself to thier level. I believe that if I would not have lost my temper that the situation would have defused itself.
WVBLUE
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Fri Oct 20, 2000, 02:37am
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call Jay
When you work that area of the country call the best Jay Des Santos.
Trust me.
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