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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 01:10pm
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Malicuous contact in MLB???

Should MLB make the plays that took place out Buster Posey for the rest of the season (catcher collision at home plate) illegal like other levels do with the malicious contact rules? Or is this just baseball and should continue and never have a rules change?

BTW, Posey's agent made this suggestion and they have been talking about it on ESPN all morning.

Peace
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 01:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Should MLB make the plays that took place out Buster Posey for the rest of the season (catcher collision at home plate) illegal like other levels do with the malicious contact rules? Or is this just baseball and should continue and never have a rules change?

BTW, Posey's agent made this suggestion and they have been talking about it on ESPN all morning.

Peace
It's time. Question is: Will Posey ever be the same again?
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 01:28pm
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Video Link

For those that have not seen it:
Buster Posey likely out for season with leg fracture | MLB.com: News

The left (HP side) ankle of the catcher is where the injury is. The last replay (about 2:40 in) is the most graphic.
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 01:34pm
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Should MLB make the plays that took place out Buster Posey for the rest of the season (catcher collision at home plate) illegal like other levels do with the malicious contact rules? Or is this just baseball and should continue and never have a rules change?

BTW, Posey's agent made this suggestion and they have been talking about it on ESPN all morning.

Peace
Rut if MLB is going to institutue an MC rule then IMO they also need to amend the OBS rule.

Presently in OBR F2 or any fielder for that matter CAN block the ENTIRE base without the ball as long as he is considered in the act of fielding.

The reason F2's get injured is because they are blocking the ENTIRE plate and in some instances the only recoarse the runner has at attaining home plate is to bowl over or dislodge the ball from F2.

Therefore you cannot have "your cake and eat it to". If you want an MC rule then the OBS rule needs to be amended as well.

It's my gut (especially with the kinds of money these ball players are making) that OBR will put in more safety provisions and it would not shock me to see OBR mirror some NCAA or FED safety rules. (ala the FPSR)

Pete Booth
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 01:48pm
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
Rut if MLB is going to institutue an MC rule then IMO they also need to amend the OBS rule.

Presently in OBR F2 or any fielder for that matter CAN block the ENTIRE base without the ball as long as he is considered in the act of fielding.
Who cares if they amend the rule? It is not impossible to change the rule. Also he was not blocking the plate.

Peace
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 01:55pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Who cares if they amend the rule? It is not impossible to change the rule. Also he was not blocking the plate.

Peace
I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 02:06pm
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth
Not in the videos I've seen. Catcher was up the 1BL a bit. Not saying it was illegal as MLB is called right now ... but he was not yet blocking the plate -- the runner clearly was going to dislodge the ball and nearly missed the plate entirely because of it.

It won't surprise me at all if we some changes because of this.

(Edit to add ... just watched the replay above - at no point is Posey actually in the runner's way - until the runner decided to go for him instead of the plate.
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 02:08pm
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth
Not sure what we see differently, because I am not making the point you are or debating the validity.

But the runner went inside when he when he could have gone outside. In other words he had access to the plate from what I saw in the video. Instead he went straight at Posey to take him out. I agree with you that the rule would have to change about blocking the plate, but that is not why this happen. You do not need to block the plate for these plays to happen at the MLB level anyway. I am just wondering if it is time to change the acceptability of this play regardless of what the catcher might have done. And at the college and HS level, blocking the plate would not exonerate the actions of the runner anyway.

Peace
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 02:16pm
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth

Absolute nonsense. Posey was completly in fair territory and R3 had a path to the plate that did not require the take out hit.

This is not to argue that R3 shouldn't have, as a precaution to be safe, taken him out. But he didn't have to take him out to reach the plate.
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 02:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Should MLB make the plays that took place out Buster Posey for the rest of the season (catcher collision at home plate) illegal like other levels do with the malicious contact rules? Or is this just baseball and should continue and never have a rules change?

BTW, Posey's agent made this suggestion and they have been talking about it on ESPN all morning.

Peace
I agree with Rich, it's time

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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 02:24pm
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My first thought is that the reason we have MC rules is to protect those who aren't being paid to play - many times, minors. MLB catchers know the risk they run, as do the players who collide with them. I don't see it as cheap. It was hardnosed and brutal but something that is expected at that level. Ray Fosse was the recipient of such a play and even he is on record as saying that pro catchers must be ready to be knocked down when trying to tag out a runner. If Ray can say that after Pete Rose separated his shoulder in an All Star game, that speaks volumes about pro expectations.

Upon further consideration, I think that introducing MC to professional baseball is simply a way to protect investments while winking at purpose pitches and slides that break up double plays. Plenty of pros have been injured by such slides but few call for them to be outlawed. I hope Buster recovers but not at the expense of pseudo-safety rules in pro ball.

Listen to the KNBR interview with Bruce Bochy. Even he admits that it is part of the game and that Cousins believed that Posey was going to come up with the ball for a tag. Bochy said that it sucks but that's baseball.

Last edited by MikeStrybel; Thu May 26, 2011 at 02:33pm.
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 02:36pm
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Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
My first thought is that the reason we have MC rules is to protect those who aren't being paid to play - many times, minors.
The reason we have MC rules in amateur ball is because of insurance. If there were NO MC rules in place I doubt the vast majority of us could afford the premiums.

I do think MLB will take a look at some form of MC rule.

Look at the NFL. They have moved the kickoff from the 30 yd line to the 35 yd line. Trying to "crack down" on vicious hits etc.

PRO Sports is sbout money and they will do what they have to to protect it's stars that's why I said it would not shock me to see MLB adopt some of the safety rules in place at the FED / NCAA level.

Pete Booth
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 03:39pm
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Joe Torre on one of the radio talk shows said that's baseball and he would not recommend changing anything.

Off topic: Is that Joe West calling the play from the RH batter's box? Maybe you need to be that close for the type of collisions you see in MLB.
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 04:00pm
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[QUOTE=PeteBooth;761557]
Quote:

The reason we have MC rules in amateur ball is because of insurance. If there were NO MC rules in place I doubt the vast majority of us could afford the premiums.

I do think MLB will take a look at some form of MC rule.

Look at the NFL. They have moved the kickoff from the 30 yd line to the 35 yd line. Trying to "crack down" on vicious hits etc.

PRO Sports is sbout money and they will do what they have to to protect it's stars that's why I said it would not shock me to see MLB adopt some of the safety rules in place at the FED / NCAA level.

Pete Booth
Pete,
Nothing gets done in MLB without the player's union consent. Owners can whine about protection all they want but the players don't want the change.

Giants' repeat odds even steeper after Posey injury - MLB - Sporting News

I bet it won't be long before Posey follows Bochy in admitting that he was attempting to block the plate and was prepared for the hit. Take a look back at Posey plays at the dish and he has no need for a 'red jersey'. Maybe the owners will whine, but I hope not. I'm sure Tom Ricketts is not happy about Marlon Byrd taking a pitch to the face but masks are not going to happen any time soon in order to protect his investment.

Last edited by MikeStrybel; Thu May 26, 2011 at 04:04pm.
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Old Thu May 26, 2011, 04:04pm
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Off topic: Is that Joe West calling the play from the RH batter's box? Maybe you need to be that close for the type of collisions you see in MLB.
Yikes! Did you see how Posey's head almost bounced off West's shin guard or shoe? He was too close for his own sake too.
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