Malicuous contact in MLB???

[PeteBooth]

I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth

Not in the videos I've seen. Catcher was up the 1BL a bit. Not saying it was illegal as MLB is called right now ... but he was not yet blocking the plate -- the runner clearly was going to dislodge the ball and nearly missed the plate entirely because of it.

It won't surprise me at all if we some changes because of this.

(Edit to add ... just watched the replay above - at no point is Posey actually in the runner's way - until the runner decided to go for him instead of the plate.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth

Not sure what we see differently, because I am not making the point you are or debating the validity.

But the runner went inside when he when he could have gone outside. In other words he had access to the plate from what I saw in the video. Instead he went straight at Posey to take him out. I agree with you that the rule would have to change about blocking the plate, but that is not why this happen. You do not need to block the plate for these plays to happen at the MLB level anyway. I am just wondering if it is time to change the acceptability of this play regardless of what the catcher might have done. And at the college and HS level, blocking the plate would not exonerate the actions of the runner anyway.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

My first thought is that the reason we have MC rules is to protect those who aren't being paid to play - many times, minors. MLB catchers know the risk they run, as do the players who collide with them. I don't see it as cheap. It was hardnosed and brutal but something that is expected at that level. Ray Fosse was the recipient of such a play and even he is on record as saying that pro catchers must be ready to be knocked down when trying to tag out a runner. If Ray can say that after Pete Rose separated his shoulder in an All Star game, that speaks volumes about pro expectations.

Upon further consideration, I think that introducing MC to professional baseball is simply a way to protect investments while winking at purpose pitches and slides that break up double plays. Plenty of pros have been injured by such slides but few call for them to be outlawed. I hope Buster recovers but not at the expense of pseudo-safety rules in pro ball.

Listen to the KNBR interview with Bruce Bochy. Even he admits that it is part of the game and that Cousins believed that Posey was going to come up with the ball for a tag. Bochy said that it sucks but that's baseball.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

My first thought is that the reason we have MC rules is to protect those who aren't being paid to play - many times, minors.

The reason we have MC rules in amateur ball is because of insurance. If there were NO MC rules in place I doubt the vast majority of us could afford the premiums.

I do think MLB will take a look at some form of MC rule.

Look at the NFL. They have moved the kickoff from the 30 yd line to the 35 yd line. Trying to "crack down" on vicious hits etc.

PRO Sports is sbout money and they will do what they have to to protect it's stars that's why I said it would not shock me to see MLB adopt some of the safety rules in place at the FED / NCAA level.

Pete Booth

[umpjim]

Joe Torre on one of the radio talk shows said that's baseball and he would not recommend changing anything.

Off topic: Is that Joe West calling the play from the RH batter's box? Maybe you need to be that close for the type of collisions you see in MLB.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Off topic: Is that Joe West calling the play from the RH batter's box? Maybe you need to be that close for the type of collisions you see in MLB.

Yikes! Did you see how Posey's head almost bounced off West's shin guard or shoe? He was too close for his own sake too.

[ozzy6900]

If you look very carefully, Posey's left ankle got hung against his right leg and that is when he snapped the bone. I remember a test with an MLB player running into a dummy catcher and they measured over 3000 lbs of force split between the two. And people wonder why we don't want players "taken out" in HS & youth ball.

[DG]

Owners have a vested interest in a change. "Players" are not all catchers. They should establish a sub-committee with equal mix of position players and catchers to provide feedback on union position.

[MikeStrybel]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;761557]

The reason we have MC rules in amateur ball is because of insurance. If there were NO MC rules in place I doubt the vast majority of us could afford the premiums.

I do think MLB will take a look at some form of MC rule.

Look at the NFL. They have moved the kickoff from the 30 yd line to the 35 yd line. Trying to "crack down" on vicious hits etc.

PRO Sports is sbout money and they will do what they have to to protect it's stars that's why I said it would not shock me to see MLB adopt some of the safety rules in place at the FED / NCAA level.

Pete Booth

Pete,
Nothing gets done in MLB without the player's union consent. Owners can whine about protection all they want but the players don't want the change.

Giants' repeat odds even steeper after Posey injury - MLB - Sporting News

I bet it won't be long before Posey follows Bochy in admitting that he was attempting to block the plate and was prepared for the hit. Take a look back at Posey plays at the dish and he has no need for a 'red jersey'. Maybe the owners will whine, but I hope not. I'm sure Tom Ricketts is not happy about Marlon Byrd taking a pitch to the face but masks are not going to happen any time soon in order to protect his investment.

[David B]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;761557]

The reason we have MC rules in amateur ball is because of insurance. If there were NO MC rules in place I doubt the vast majority of us could afford the premiums.

I do think MLB will take a look at some form of MC rule.

Look at the NFL. They have moved the kickoff from the 30 yd line to the 35 yd line. Trying to "crack down" on vicious hits etc.

PRO Sports is sbout money and they will do what they have to to protect it's stars that's why I said it would not shock me to see MLB adopt some of the safety rules in place at the FED / NCAA level.

Pete Booth

yep it's just a matter of time. More and more players in MLB are more interested in their health than playing everyday. That's why so many of them sit out so many games now. I wouldn't be surprised in a few years to see something about plays at 2nd also.

Players have too many incentives tied in with their contracts now to have to sit out games due to serious injury.

Thanks
David

[greymule]

When you watch the old MLB films, you can see that at one time practically nothing was prohibited—case after case of obvious intentional interference, with little or no effort to disguise it. Apparently the runner from 1B not only had the right to interfere on an attempted DP, but was expected to do so by everyone on the field. Runners (1) went ten feet out of the baseline to crash the fielder at 2B, (2) in obvious attempts to interfere, went into 2B standing up after being put out, (3) crashed the catcher at home if he was anywhere near the plate, ball or not, and (4) feigned "protective" moves when they used their hands and arms to grab and tangle and otherwise interfere.

The umpires seemed simply to watch it all happen but let it go, and fielders never seemed to look to the umps for some kind of call. You wonder what runners would have had to do to get an INT call, much less get ejected.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by greymule

(3) crashed the catcher at home if he was anywhere near the plate, ball or not

Jack Clark has a radio show each night on one of the talk radio channels, and I listen when the Cardinals aren't on the other station.

Last night, they were discussing the Posey incident. Jack prefaced by saying Posey wasn't a dirty player, so the story wouldn't apply to him; however, he said the players always found a way to crash into "dirty" catchers. He explicitly gave Mike Scioscia as an example. If you came home, Jack said that Mike would always find a way to hip check you or give you an elbow to the ribs, especially if there was no play being made on you. Jack said that because of this, players were always looking at ways to get the upper hand; he implied that injuring a "dirty" player was a goal of many other players.

Now, I don't know how true it is, but seeing video like you mention doesn't discredit what he said.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I guess we see things differently. Posey was blocking the plate well before he received the ball. IMO, that's why R3 did what he did.

Pete Booth

Absolute nonsense. Posey was completly in fair territory and R3 had a path to the plate that did not require the take out hit.

This is not to argue that R3 shouldn't have, as a precaution to be safe, taken him out. But he didn't have to take him out to reach the plate.