Throwing the Bat - LL

[kylejt]

Ozzy, don't blow a gasket there, kid.

You're not working these games, so don't worry about it. We're talking little kids, as they're the ones flinging bats. Eight, nine, ten year olds in the LL minors. I work down there becuase I train a lot of Junior umpires. And I'll bet none of the rest of you are, either. So simmer down, y'all.

It's really easy to "Dump the little *******s" when you don't work at that level. But when you are an integral part of a local league, and not just an umpire, you want what's best for everyone involved. Making an eight year old sit out a game because of an accidental release is stupid. Most folks would agree with that.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Really? You have direction and you choose not to use it so that makes you a total fool. This is why LL is so F'd up because you have rules and no one follows them.

And you can kiss my back side with that comment!

Originally Posted by kylejt

Ozzy, don't blow a gasket there, kid.

You're not working these games, so don't worry about it. We're talking little kids, as they're the ones flinging bats. Eight, nine, ten year olds in the LL minors. I work down there becuase I train a lot of Junior umpires. And I'll bet none of the rest of you are, either. So simmer down, y'all.

It's really easy to "Dump the little *******s" when you don't work at that level. But when you are an integral part of a local league, and not just an umpire, you want what's best for everyone involved. Making an eight year old sit out a game because of an accidental release is stupid. Most folks would agree with that.

Ozzy, I agree with you. This is exactly why it's difficult to umpire these leagues. You have the rules so call it by the prescribed penalty and move on. I bet the next time little Johnny is up to bat, he doesn't carelessly throw the bat.

-Josh

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Ozzy, I agree with you. This is exactly why it's difficult to umpire these leagues. You have the rules so call it by the prescribed penalty and move on. I bet the next time little Johnny is up to bat, he doesn't carelessly throw the bat.

-Josh

Josh, I fought this problem back in the 1970's when I actually officiated LL. Somewhere in the early 1980's, Williamsport decreed the exact same thing that they say now, warn then eject. The ejection is under Unsportsmanlike Conduct which is a valid rule that an official is supposed to use when it is needed.

My beef with some people on this board is that they put on the uniform and follow the rules until it requires the official to have the balls to do what has to be done. Many of these officials pussy-foot around so that when these little tykes get on the big diamond, they don't understand why they have been allowed to do this stuff for 12 years and suddenly, here comes Ozzy, kicking the twerp's a$$ out of the game for the very thing that should have been stopped years ago!

[kylejt]

Oz, maybe we're talking about two different things here.

If a player flings a bat in anger, he's gone. No warning. Adios.

But I'm talking about an involuntary release of the bat. Kinda like a helmet that's too big flying off a runners head. That lid may fly off a couple times a game, and you can tell a manager to get a better fitting helmet, you surely wouldn't eject a player over it, and have him sit out another game to boot.

[jdmara]

"Involuntary release of the bat"

Can someone please explain what this term means? I think the batter is purposely releasing the bat. It didn't slip out of his hands, he intentionally released the bat. What he did was carelessly release the bat not involuntarily release.

Sorry, it's my grippe of the day

-Josh

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by jdmara

"Involuntary release of the bat"

Can someone please explain what this term means? I think the batter is purposely releasing the bat. It didn't slip out of his hands, he intentionally released the bat. What he did was carelessly release the bat not involuntarily release.

Sorry, it's my grippe of the day

-Josh

Right. Those bats the pros throw into the stands are thrown into the stands on purpose.

Same in LL. Couldn't possibly have slipped - had to have been on purpose.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Right. Those bats the pros throw into the stands are thrown into the stands on purpose.

Same in LL. Couldn't possibly have slipped - had to have been on purpose.

I didn't say that the bat could not have slipped in LL. What I'm pointing out is that a bat that is carelessly throw for four consecutive batters cannot possibly be an "involuntary" release. I give the kid the benefit of the doubt the first time it happens. Sometimes the bat gets away, we see it in the majors. But if it's an obvious habit of carelessly throwing the bat (ie thrown backwards multiple times by the same batter or a series of batters), don't call it involuntary. If it's raining or something, stop the game because it's no longer safe to play. By all means, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

-Josh

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Oz, maybe we're talking about two different things here.

If a player flings a bat in anger, he's gone. No warning. Adios.

But I'm talking about an involuntary release of the bat. Kinda like a helmet that's too big flying off a runners head. That lid may fly off a couple times a game, and you can tell a manager to get a better fitting helmet, you surely wouldn't eject a player over it, and have him sit out another game to boot.

Kyle, is there a rule in LL that prescribes a runner to be ejected when his helmet falls off?

I think you're introducing oranges into the apple debate.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Josh, I fought this problem back in the 1970's when I actually officiated LL. Somewhere in the early 1980's, Williamsport decreed the exact same thing that they say now, warn then eject. The ejection is under Unsportsmanlike Conduct which is a valid rule that an official is supposed to use when it is needed.

My beef with some people on this board is that they put on the uniform and follow the rules until it requires the official to have the balls to do what has to be done. Many of these officials pussy-foot around so that when these little tykes get on the big diamond, they don't understand why they have been allowed to do this stuff for 12 years and suddenly, here comes Ozzy, kicking the twerp's a$$ out of the game for the very thing that should have been stopped years ago!

I don't do a lot of youth leagues anymore because I seem like the a$$hole half the time because I do enforce the rules as intended.

IE. I had a situation my first weekend out with 10 y/o's. The little tike came barreling home and attempted to run through the catcher to dislodge the ball. Unfortunately, for the runner, he was the smallest guy on the field and the catcher was the biggest. I called time when the MC occurred, ruled the runner was out, and (without showing anyone up) disqualified the player (no words, just a calm signal). The play ended the inning and I walked over to the offenders bench. "Coach, 12 has been disqualified for the play at home." Coaches response, "Ok I understand why. Can you explain to him what he did and what he should have done?" "Absolutely, I need to go inform the other coach and I'll do it at the next half inning, ok?" "No problem" Went over after the next half inning and explained the options to the player and coaches. They appreciated it a lot and hope it minimized damage in the future.

If it were a HS Var game I would let the coach explain to his players but since it was asked nicely and everyone was learning, it wasn't a problem.

In basketball, some of the youth assigners have chosen in the past to not assign me for tourney's (which I respect their right to do that). Usually it's a result of me giving a technical (or two) to a coach or asking a coach/administrator to have a parent leave after they've made a fool of themselves. The subsequent complaint precipitate me not getting a call. Ironically enough it takes a few tourneys without me and they realize that if there isn't that discipline, their tourney turn into a gong show.

If it's not acceptable in high school, then it's not acceptable in youth leagues either.

-Josh

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I don't do a lot of youth leagues anymore because I seem like the a$$hole half the time because I do enforce the rules as intended.

IE. I had a situation my first weekend out with 10 y/o's. The little tike came barreling home and attempted to run through the catcher to dislodge the ball. Unfortunately, for the runner, he was the smallest guy on the field and the catcher was the biggest. I called time when the MC occurred, ruled the runner was out, and (without showing anyone up) disqualified the player (no words, just a calm signal). The play ended the inning and I walked over to the offenders bench. "Coach, 12 has been disqualified for the play at home." Coaches response, "Ok I understand why. Can you explain to him what he did and what he should have done?" "Absolutely, I need to go inform the other coach and I'll do it at the next half inning, ok?" "No problem" Went over after the next half inning and explained the options to the player and coaches. They appreciated it a lot and hope it minimized damage in the future.

If it were a HS Var game I would let the coach explain to his players but since it was asked nicely and everyone was learning, it wasn't a problem.

In basketball, some of the youth assigners have chosen in the past to not assign me for tourney's (which I respect their right to do that). Usually it's a result of me giving a technical (or two) to a coach or asking a coach/administrator to have a parent leave after they've made a fool of themselves. The subsequent complaint precipitate me not getting a call. Ironically enough it takes a few tourneys without me and they realize that if there isn't that discipline, their tourney turn into a gong show.

If it's not acceptable in high school, then it's not acceptable in youth leagues either.

-Josh

I worked some youth football like that when I moved here about 10 years ago. Threw some USC flags on coaches that were out of control and was told that they'd rather have officials that let coaches alone. Hey, they can enjoy their clown car and I can enjoy my Saturdays.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I worked some youth football like that when I moved here about 10 years ago. Threw some USC flags on coaches that were out of control and was told that they'd rather have officials that let coaches alone. Hey, they can enjoy their clown car and I can enjoy my Saturdays.

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-Josh