Throwing the Bat - LL

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by jdmara

"Involuntary release of the bat"

Can someone please explain what this term means? I think the batter is purposely releasing the bat. It didn't slip out of his hands, he intentionally released the bat. What he did was carelessly release the bat not involuntarily release.

Sorry, it's my grippe of the day

-Josh

Right. Those bats the pros throw into the stands are thrown into the stands on purpose.

Same in LL. Couldn't possibly have slipped - had to have been on purpose.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Oz, maybe we're talking about two different things here.

If a player flings a bat in anger, he's gone. No warning. Adios.

But I'm talking about an involuntary release of the bat. Kinda like a helmet that's too big flying off a runners head. That lid may fly off a couple times a game, and you can tell a manager to get a better fitting helmet, you surely wouldn't eject a player over it, and have him sit out another game to boot.

Kyle, is there a rule in LL that prescribes a runner to be ejected when his helmet falls off?

I think you're introducing oranges into the apple debate.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Right. Those bats the pros throw into the stands are thrown into the stands on purpose.

Same in LL. Couldn't possibly have slipped - had to have been on purpose.

I didn't say that the bat could not have slipped in LL. What I'm pointing out is that a bat that is carelessly throw for four consecutive batters cannot possibly be an "involuntary" release. I give the kid the benefit of the doubt the first time it happens. Sometimes the bat gets away, we see it in the majors. But if it's an obvious habit of carelessly throwing the bat (ie thrown backwards multiple times by the same batter or a series of batters), don't call it involuntary. If it's raining or something, stop the game because it's no longer safe to play. By all means, don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

-Josh

[Matt]

Having not done LL in a dozen years, I'm surprised the words "administrative removal" have not arisen.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by jdmara

. What I'm pointing out is that a bat that is carelessly throw for four consecutive batters cannot possibly be an "involuntary" release.
-Josh

Ah, the conspiracy theory. That's a new one.

Four batters in a row throw the bat on purpose, in your opinion. Yeah, I'd throw the manager out if I thought those guided missiles were intentional.

Look fellas, if you thing for one minute that a batter is trying to fling his bat to gain some sort of advantage, eject him right away. I'm just talking about little kids, who aren't doing this on purpose.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Ah, the conspiracy theory. That's a new one.

Four batters in a row throw the bat on purpose, in your opinion. Yeah, I'd throw the manager out if I thought those guided missiles were intentional.

Look fellas, if you thing for one minute that a batter is trying to fling his bat to gain some sort of advantage, eject him right away. I'm just talking about little kids, who aren't doing this on purpose.

I think the point he was trying to make is that the team was not exercising sufficient care. Even non-purposeful bat flings are incredibly rare, to the extent that I see fewer than 5 a season. To have 4 batter in a row lose their bat in a dangerous manner means they are not swinging so hard they can't hold on but are releasing the bat before they stop their swing.

Since releasing their bat is a purposeful action, it's not wrong to describe the bat flinging as purposeful even though it is not meant to endanger.

[kylejt]

How 'bout four hit batters in a row? Same difference, eh?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

How 'bout four hit batters in a row? Same difference, eh?

No.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by kylejt

How 'bout four hit batters in a row? Same difference, eh?

No, and I think you already knew that.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

No, and I think you already knew that.

Hey, it was worth a shot.

Look, we're talking about an accidental act. Me, I don't want to eject a little kid over this. I'll give the manager the courtesy of pulling him, instead. If the manager wishes to step on my courtesy, by trying to insert the player later in the game, I can choose to courtesy him from the game. I don't see the problem.

Again, I've only had this come up a couple of times over 12 years, and the managers were thankful to have the option.

Maybe I just work where there are not a lot of jackballs who would try to take advantage of a sitution like this. If you live in such an area, feel free to go by Little League's guidance, and eject the little miscreants.

[collint1993]

For rec league, I normally issue a warning to the team of the offender(especially if the catcher gets hurt) and 99% of the time the coaches will agree with you that the kids can't be throwing the bats. If it happens again, I'll call the kid out. But for travel I normally just ask the coach after the inning to talk to his team, and they normally do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by collint1993

For rec league, I normally issue a warning to the team of the offender(especially if the catcher gets hurt) and 99% of the time the coaches will agree with you that the kids can't be throwing the bats. If it happens again, I'll call the kid out. But for travel I normally just ask the coach after the inning to talk to his team, and they normally do.

Which rule allows you to call the kid out? You can't make stuff up to suit your purpose unless the league you work for has such a rule in place. LL doesn't.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by collint1993

For rec league, I normally issue a warning to the team of the offender(especially if the catcher gets hurt) and 99% of the time the coaches will agree with you that the kids can't be throwing the bats. If it happens again, I'll call the kid out. But for travel I normally just ask the coach after the inning to talk to his team, and they normally do.

Good. Always good to invent rules to suit your purposes.

[DG]

Is missing a game a LL rule, or League rule, I dont' know because no LL around here. For small leagues around here it a league rule. Most around here it is a league rule. What other league rules don't we like so will not enforce?

What if little Johnny pitches bat in 6th innning? If he misses rest of that game only, what did he learn? Hanging onto the bat is not hard to do, most everyone else in the league can.

[kylejt]

The game suspension is mandatory on an ejection.

LL has given the umpire guidance (it's not a rule) to warn, and eject errant bat flingers.

They've also given us (also not a rule) the option of having the manager remove the player from the game, to avoid the suspension.