Throwing the Bat - LL

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How about, if the coach puts the kid back in, you let him, then follow through on the ejection.

Ejection Report:

In the bottom of the first, I issued a warning to HomeTeam batter #15 for carelessly throwing a bat. In the bottom of the third, HomeTeam batter #15 again thew a bat carelessly, hitting the catcher in the shin guards. I approached HomeTeam Coach HomeCoach and asked him to remove #15 from his lineup and place him on the bench.

In the top of the 6th, HomeCoach approached me and advised #15 would be entering the game as the first baseman. I allowed the substitution, then ejected #15 from the game for his actions in the first and third innings.

I don't think that would go over well in any well-run league.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Ejection Report:



I don't think that would go over well in any well-run league.

+1

My point exactly.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Some of us LL geezers have been banging on WP for the administrative removal for years. Some day.

OK, you're kind of making my point now. If you've been "banging on" them - and they've not done it... maybe they DON'T sanction what you're proposing.

I REALLY don't think some semi-anonymous commentary on Facebook is going to hold water when my assignor asks me what I was thinking when I ejected a coach for a legal reentry after I failed to properly administer the rules of the game - especially when that ejection gets protested and starts heading up the chain.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

OK, you're kind of making my point now. If you've been "banging on" them - and they've not done it... maybe they DON'T sanction what you're proposing.

I REALLY don't think some semi-anonymous commentary on Facebook is going to hold water when my assignor asks me what I was thinking when I ejected a coach for a legal reentry after I failed to properly administer the rules of the game - especially when that ejection gets protested and starts heading up the chain.

Well - it was first suggested by their at-the-time UIC. In writing. Before Facebook. It's still being pushed by the rank and file. Time will tell.

The real problem from a rules perspective is that it should probably be treated differently for an 8 yr old who hasn't learned yet and a 15 year old who should definitely know better. That's why the AR option should be there.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Well - it was first suggested by their at-the-time UIC. In writing. Before Facebook. It's still being pushed by the rank and file. Time will tell.

The real problem from a rules perspective is that it should probably be treated differently for an 8 yr old who hasn't learned yet and a 15 year old who should definitely know better. That's why the AR option should be there.

It seems to me it's not the ejection that's the issue; it's the automatic one-game suspensions. Get rid of the automatic suspension and get a disciplinary committee instead.

[TwoBits]

I know leagues using OBR usually have some sort of supplemental rule regarding throwing bats, but do the OBR rules themselves mention it?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I know leagues using OBR usually have some sort of supplemental rule regarding throwing bats, but do the OBR rules themselves mention it?

Not in the sense it's used in this thread

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I know leagues using OBR usually have some sort of supplemental rule regarding throwing bats, but do the OBR rules themselves mention it?

No.

I ended a LL tournament game last season when a team with 9 players helicoptered his bat to the fence after striking out. (Umpires suspend in LL, the powers that be decide on the forfeit.)

I know this is a different situation, but I've never let the number of players or the consequences to the player guide my decision on ejecting or not ejecting. If most people think a suspension is unfair, they'll change that rule. If not, then players and coaches must be mindful that actions have consequences.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Ozzy, I agree with you. This is exactly why it's difficult to umpire these leagues. You have the rules so call it by the prescribed penalty and move on. I bet the next time little Johnny is up to bat, he doesn't carelessly throw the bat.

-Josh

Josh, I fought this problem back in the 1970's when I actually officiated LL. Somewhere in the early 1980's, Williamsport decreed the exact same thing that they say now, warn then eject. The ejection is under Unsportsmanlike Conduct which is a valid rule that an official is supposed to use when it is needed.

My beef with some people on this board is that they put on the uniform and follow the rules until it requires the official to have the balls to do what has to be done. Many of these officials pussy-foot around so that when these little tykes get on the big diamond, they don't understand why they have been allowed to do this stuff for 12 years and suddenly, here comes Ozzy, kicking the twerp's a$$ out of the game for the very thing that should have been stopped years ago!

[kylejt]

Oz, maybe we're talking about two different things here.

If a player flings a bat in anger, he's gone. No warning. Adios.

But I'm talking about an involuntary release of the bat. Kinda like a helmet that's too big flying off a runners head. That lid may fly off a couple times a game, and you can tell a manager to get a better fitting helmet, you surely wouldn't eject a player over it, and have him sit out another game to boot.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Josh, I fought this problem back in the 1970's when I actually officiated LL. Somewhere in the early 1980's, Williamsport decreed the exact same thing that they say now, warn then eject. The ejection is under Unsportsmanlike Conduct which is a valid rule that an official is supposed to use when it is needed.

My beef with some people on this board is that they put on the uniform and follow the rules until it requires the official to have the balls to do what has to be done. Many of these officials pussy-foot around so that when these little tykes get on the big diamond, they don't understand why they have been allowed to do this stuff for 12 years and suddenly, here comes Ozzy, kicking the twerp's a$$ out of the game for the very thing that should have been stopped years ago!

I don't do a lot of youth leagues anymore because I seem like the a$$hole half the time because I do enforce the rules as intended.

IE. I had a situation my first weekend out with 10 y/o's. The little tike came barreling home and attempted to run through the catcher to dislodge the ball. Unfortunately, for the runner, he was the smallest guy on the field and the catcher was the biggest. I called time when the MC occurred, ruled the runner was out, and (without showing anyone up) disqualified the player (no words, just a calm signal). The play ended the inning and I walked over to the offenders bench. "Coach, 12 has been disqualified for the play at home." Coaches response, "Ok I understand why. Can you explain to him what he did and what he should have done?" "Absolutely, I need to go inform the other coach and I'll do it at the next half inning, ok?" "No problem" Went over after the next half inning and explained the options to the player and coaches. They appreciated it a lot and hope it minimized damage in the future.

If it were a HS Var game I would let the coach explain to his players but since it was asked nicely and everyone was learning, it wasn't a problem.

In basketball, some of the youth assigners have chosen in the past to not assign me for tourney's (which I respect their right to do that). Usually it's a result of me giving a technical (or two) to a coach or asking a coach/administrator to have a parent leave after they've made a fool of themselves. The subsequent complaint precipitate me not getting a call. Ironically enough it takes a few tourneys without me and they realize that if there isn't that discipline, their tourney turn into a gong show.

If it's not acceptable in high school, then it's not acceptable in youth leagues either.

-Josh

[Adam]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Ejection Report:



I don't think that would go over well in any well-run league.

Yeah, makes sense. I'm thinking of a situation in youth basketball where I might suggest a coach pull a kid rather than deal with it myself.

1. I can't force him to do it.

2. If he does and later puts him back in, I'm not going to eject a kid in the 3rd quarter for an inadvertently hard foul in the 2nd. If I didn't pull the trigger then, I've given him a 2nd chance.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I don't do a lot of youth leagues anymore because I seem like the a$$hole half the time because I do enforce the rules as intended.

IE. I had a situation my first weekend out with 10 y/o's. The little tike came barreling home and attempted to run through the catcher to dislodge the ball. Unfortunately, for the runner, he was the smallest guy on the field and the catcher was the biggest. I called time when the MC occurred, ruled the runner was out, and (without showing anyone up) disqualified the player (no words, just a calm signal). The play ended the inning and I walked over to the offenders bench. "Coach, 12 has been disqualified for the play at home." Coaches response, "Ok I understand why. Can you explain to him what he did and what he should have done?" "Absolutely, I need to go inform the other coach and I'll do it at the next half inning, ok?" "No problem" Went over after the next half inning and explained the options to the player and coaches. They appreciated it a lot and hope it minimized damage in the future.

If it were a HS Var game I would let the coach explain to his players but since it was asked nicely and everyone was learning, it wasn't a problem.

In basketball, some of the youth assigners have chosen in the past to not assign me for tourney's (which I respect their right to do that). Usually it's a result of me giving a technical (or two) to a coach or asking a coach/administrator to have a parent leave after they've made a fool of themselves. The subsequent complaint precipitate me not getting a call. Ironically enough it takes a few tourneys without me and they realize that if there isn't that discipline, their tourney turn into a gong show.

If it's not acceptable in high school, then it's not acceptable in youth leagues either.

-Josh

I worked some youth football like that when I moved here about 10 years ago. Threw some USC flags on coaches that were out of control and was told that they'd rather have officials that let coaches alone. Hey, they can enjoy their clown car and I can enjoy my Saturdays.

[jdmara]

"Involuntary release of the bat"

Can someone please explain what this term means? I think the batter is purposely releasing the bat. It didn't slip out of his hands, he intentionally released the bat. What he did was carelessly release the bat not involuntarily release.

Sorry, it's my grippe of the day

-Josh

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I worked some youth football like that when I moved here about 10 years ago. Threw some USC flags on coaches that were out of control and was told that they'd rather have officials that let coaches alone. Hey, they can enjoy their clown car and I can enjoy my Saturdays.

1+

-Josh