It came to me in a dream

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Rufus,

In FED it's "live ball, play the bounce".

Under OBR, the ball is dead, the R1 is out, the BR is awarded 1B, and the R3 is back on 3B.

JM

JM
Thanks for this. I'm looking at an (older) copy of OBR 7.08 and found this:

Any runner is out when—He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

Since in my situation R1 was hit after it passed the drawn-in infielders would he still be out under OBR? Not trying to abush, just trying to understand. Thanks.

MBCrowder - noted and thanks for the clarification

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rufus

JM
Thanks for this. I'm looking at an (older) copy of OBR 7.08 and found this:

Any runner is out when—He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out;

Since in my situation R1 was hit after it passed the drawn-in infielders would he still be out under OBR? Not trying to abush, just trying to understand. Thanks.

MBCrowder - noted and thanks for the clarification

"passed an infielder" in this instance means "goes immediately by or through the infielder." IOW, if the runner could reasonably expect the fielder to make a play, he's not out just because the fielder didn't and the runner was (nearly) directly behind the fielder.

but, if the ball goes between the two fielders, then the runner can see the ball and is expected to avoid it.

[DG]

New one on me. You mean I am supposed to judge something other than whether the ball passed infielders and they had their chance? You think I should judge that R1 should have seen the ball and avoided and because he did not ball is dead and he is out?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DG

New one on me. You mean I am supposed to judge something other than whether the ball passed infielders and they had their chance? You think I should judge that R1 should have seen the ball and avoided and because he did not ball is dead and he is out?

For OBR, you must judge if the ball was within "a step and a reach" of a fielder. If so, then the runner is protected. If not, then not.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

For OBR, you must judge if the ball was within "a step and a reach" of a fielder. If so, then the runner is protected. If not, then not.

I think that's for whether a fielder is protected after bobbling the ball, not for whether the ball wen "past" him.

[DG]

"On the other hand, if a batted ball goes through or by an infielder (other than the pitcher) without touching the fielder and then strikes a runner immediately behind the infielder, the umpire must determine if another infielder has a chance to make a play on the ball. If the umpire determines another infielder does have a chance the runner is out. If the umpire determines another infielder does not have a chance, the ball is alive and in play".

Are you saying that if a runner is struck by a ball behind infielders but not immediately behind an infielder he is out? If so I have never seen or heard that interpretation so new one on me.

[UmpJM]

DG,

That's correct.

The point is that the defense (not just the infielders) have the right to an unhindered opportunity to field a fair batted ball.

This is what the MLBUM has to say on the subject:

The interpretation to be made with regard to the phrase "a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him" (Official Baseball Rules 7.09(m) and 5.09(f)) is that this refers to a ball that passes through the infielder's legs, or by his immediate vicinity, and strikes a runner directly behind the infielder.

....

(5) Runners on first and second, both runners stealing. Batter shows bunt, the first and third basemen move in, and the shortstop moves to cover third. The batter swings at the last minute and hits a ground ball in the direction of the shortstop position. However, the shortstop has
moved to cover third base, and no one is in position to field the ball. The ground ball strikes the runner advancing from second base.

Ruling: Runner from second is declared out for being struck by a batted ball. The batter-runner is placed at first base. The ball is not considered to have gone through or by an infielder in this play.

JM

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DG

Are you saying that if a runner is struck by a ball behind infielders but not immediately behind an infielder he is out? If so I have never seen or heard that interpretation so new one on me.

Yes. They've said it numerous times now. Shouldn't be a new one on you with your 3500 posts... this has been the rule for as long as I can remember.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by DG

New one on me. You mean I am supposed to judge something other than whether the ball passed infielders and they had their chance? You think I should judge that R1 should have seen the ball and avoided and because he did not ball is dead and he is out?

You missed the point. The theory is that the runner has a reasonable expectation that the fielder will make a play so he need not be expected to avoid the ball. Anytime else, he must avoid the ball.

You only have to judge if it passed through or in immediate reach of the fielder.

[DG]

OK, infield is drawn in on the grass, and batted ball hits runner in the dirt, no chance for any infielder to have a chance because all are in the grass. Runner did not run into it intentionally. What is call?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

OK, infield is drawn in on the grass, and batted ball hits runner in the dirt, no chance for any infielder to have a chance because all are in the grass. Runner did not run into it intentionally. What is call?

OBR: Out. A runner has the obligation to avoid the ball. Exception: THe ball goes immediately past the fielder. Exception to the exception: Another fielder is in position for a play.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by DG

OK, infield is drawn in on the grass, and batted ball hits runner in the dirt, no chance for any infielder to have a chance because all are in the grass. Runner did not run into it intentionally. What is call?

JM, Bob Jenkins, and I posted tha answer above.

Tt reiterate:

OBR - Out, dead ball, BR to 1B, others return.

Fed and NCAA - live ball, play the bounce.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

The theory is that the runner has a reasonable expectation that the fielder will make a play so he need not be expected to avoid the ball. Anytime else, he must avoid the ball.

You only have to judge if it passed through or in immediate reach of the fielder.

Very similar to what Evans teaches. He turns it around and puts the emphasis on when it's the runners obligation to avoid the ball.