Mixing the Set and Windup Positions

[Coach Dykhoff]

R1 is on 1B.

F1 is right handed.

F1 goes into the stretch with ball in right hand and glove hand on his front leg.

F1 comes to the set position and stops with both hands in front of him.
----- Free and Pivot Foot approx a foot apart.
----- Back to the runner on 1B
----- Perpendicular to the batter.

F1 steps straight backwards (Towards 1B) with hit free foot.

F1 kicks leg forward and continues the pitch to the plate.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

R1 is on 1B.

F1 is right handed.

F1 goes into the stretch with ball in right hand and glove hand on his front leg.

F1 comes to the set position and stops with both hands in front of him.
----- Free and Pivot Foot approx a foot apart.
----- Back to the runner on 1B
----- Perpendicular to the batter.

F1 steps straight backwards (Towards 1B) with hit free foot.

F1 kicks leg forward and continues the pitch to the plate.

Based on just that, I have nothing. What rule (in the windup section) do you think he broke? "Free" can include where it sounds like his foot was.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Based on just that, I have nothing. What rule (in the windup section) do you think he broke? "Free" can include where it sounds like his foot was.

Mike, I'm reading this F1 as starting in the set, not the windup. That would make more sense with a runner on.

I could be wrong: F1 cannot both be "perpendicular to the batter" (sounds like he's facing the batter in the windup) and have "his back to the runner at 1B" (sounds like he's facing 3B in the set).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Mike, I'm reading this F1 as starting in the set, not the windup. That would make more sense with a runner on.

I could be wrong: F1 cannot both be "perpendicular to the batter" (sounds like he's facing the batter in the windup) and have "his back to the runner at 1B" (sounds like he's facing 3B in the set).

With the pitcher stepping back, this HAS to be a windup... so compare his actions to that rule to determine if he broke one.

Imagine pitcher with feet appearing to face 3rd, but the body facing home... could that not be "facing the batter"?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

With the pitcher stepping back, this HAS to be a windup... so compare his actions to that rule to determine if he broke one.

Imagine pitcher with feet appearing to face 3rd, but the body facing home... could that not be "facing the batter"?

As you know, what he does during the pitching motion does not determine whether he's in the windup or the set. It's strictly the position of his feet when he takes the rubber.

[Coach Dykhoff]

The two parts of the rules that I feel make this a balk are:

1) When he steps back while in the set position it is toward first base which makes this a balk.

2) When he steps back while in the set position he is bringing his free foot off the ground to step back (Not going to the plate but doing a windup) which makes this a balk.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

The two parts of the rules that I feel make this a balk are:

1) When he steps back while in the set position it is toward first base which makes this a balk.

2) When he steps back while in the set position he is bringing his free foot off the ground to step back (Not going to the plate but doing a windup) which makes this a balk.

Both of these say, "While in the set position".

What part of the "Windup position" rule has he broken? MByron is envisioning the initial foot setup as the problem. In my head, I'm not - but I might not be envisioning exactly what this kid did. It's very HTBT.

[Coach Dykhoff]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Mike, I'm reading this F1 as starting in the set, not the windup. That would make more sense with a runner on.

I could be wrong: F1 cannot both be "perpendicular to the batter" (sounds like he's facing the batter in the windup) and have "his back to the runner at 1B" (sounds like he's facing 3B in the set).

We will say parallel then.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Coach Dykhoff

F1 steps straight backwards (Towards 1B) with hit free foot.

F1 kicks leg forward and continues the pitch to the plate.

Assuming he started with his feet in the set position, this is a balk for stepping toward 1B without throwing.

I do not know LL rules, so if this is LL you'll have to check with those guys.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Assuming he started with his feet in the set position, this is a balk for stepping toward 1B without throwing.

I do not know LL rules, so if this is LL you'll have to check with those guys.

Consider this to be the windup (albeit unorthodox) position ... we've all seen the backward step on a windup go further toward 1st than 2nd. I still see nothing wrong here, at least as I'm visualizing.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Assuming he started with his feet in the set position, this is a balk for stepping toward 1B without throwing.

I do not know LL rules, so if this is LL you'll have to check with those guys.

LL

Not a balk in 12 and under divisions

Is a balk in the 13 and up divisions.

BECAUSE - with the runners locked on base until the pitch reaches the batter in 12U there's really no advantage gained by a pitcher.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

LL

Not a balk in 12 and under divisions

Is a balk in the 13 and up divisions.

BECAUSE - with the runners locked on base until the pitch reaches the batter in 12U there's really no advantage gained by a pitcher.

{Dreaming} Why can't LL, USSSA, etc get together and standardize? {/Dreaming}

I was shocked that 9U USSSA was leading off a few weekends ago. It's nuts. If a runner gets on first, they should just place him on third because in two pitches he is there anyways

-Josh

[umpjim]

No free foot limitation in pure OBR anymore.

Just google Cliff Lee or JP Howell to see this as a legal in OBR. As long as the pitcher doesn't stretch to a stop he can windup or not from this foot position that looks like the set.
If you would balk this backward step to first in the OP would you balk a normal windup stepping back to 2B with R2 and R3?
However, these kids are headed to FED so you might as well stop it now.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Perhaps someone should take the young lad aside and instruct him as to the proper way to arrive at the set position, and what his legal options are from that point.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by umpjim

No free foot limitation in pure OBR anymore.

Just google Cliff Lee or JP Howell to see this as a legal in OBR. As long as the pitcher doesn't stretch to a stop he can windup or not from this foot position that looks like the set.

Citation please. It's illegal by rule but ignored in MLB, like not stopping from the set with no runners on.