Coverage Question

[jophyal]

rich, what rotation do you have with a runner on first as PU. we are trained to have play at third, if there is one. lets say that F4 chooses to make play at first and R1 rounds second and play is made on him at third. where are you?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by jophyal

rich, what rotation do you have with a runner on first as PU. we are trained to have play at third, if there is one. lets say that F4 chooses to make play at first and R1 rounds second and play is made on him at third. where are you?

jophyal,

There are two schools of thought on the "1st to 3rd" rotation.

A. If the ball does not leave the infield, the BU "has it all" on the bases, and the PU "stays home".

B. Whether or not the ball leaves the infield, the PU will have any play on the R1 at 3B.

I believe Rich is suggesting he subscribes to "A".

The CCA manual (NCAA mechanics) said "A" last year, and this year says "B".

I am fine with doing it either way, but it is something I ALWAYS pregame with my partner.

JM

[jophyal]

jm, thanks. i have always been a "b" guy and we normally rotate that way. I can see where "a" would save my legs in the summer when we do 3 games in this heat.

[UmpJM]

jophyal,

It seems to be one of those things that "pendulums" over the years.

From my experience, each has its advantages/disadvantages, and "personal preference" of one over the other is largely determined by what was considered "proper" when a given individual first "learned" the rotation.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

From my experience, each has its advantages/disadvantages, and "personal preference" of one over the other is largely determined by what was considered "proper" when a given individual first "learned" the rotation.

JM

And "proper" goes back and forth depending on which play "whoever is in charge" got burned on last year.

[jophyal]

Maybe I should start a new thread...

R1, batted ball to F4, close play at first. Coach asks you for help from your partner...
Would you,while BU, ask for help from PU in this sitch?
If you were PU would you be looking at first or runner touching/missing second?

Thanks for all of ya'lls help this year.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jophyal

Maybe I should start a new thread...

R1, batted ball to F4, close play at first. Coach asks you for help from your partner...
Would you,while BU, ask for help from PU in this sitch?
If you were PU would you be looking at first or runner touching/missing second?

Thanks for all of ya'lls help this year.

For just a simple play at first? Heck no!!!

And as a PU I would not give help on a call like that for a simply play.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jophyal

Maybe I should start a new thread...

R1, batted ball to F4, close play at first. Coach asks you for help from your partner...
Would you,while BU, ask for help from PU in this sitch?
If you were PU would you be looking at first or runner touching/missing second?

Thanks for all of ya'lls help this year.

Why would a coach ask you to get help on this play? You're starting in B, you take a few steps, you come set, you make the call.

Any particular reason the coach is asking?

(I've asked a plate umpire for help at first twice in 24 years. The last time was in 2001, so I'm probably due again soon.)

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

A. If the ball does not leave the infield, the BU "has it all" on the bases, and the PU "stays home".

B. Whether or not the ball leaves the infield, the PU will have any play on the R1 at 3B.

I am fine with doing it either way, but it is something I ALWAYS pregame with my partner.

JM

+1, Don't start a game without it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

+1, Don't start a game without it.

I'm not saying that you guys are overemphasizing the importance of a pregame, but:

If you're an experienced umpire, you can easily adapt to a partner that decides to cover third there, even if that's not your normal coverage. See partner, let him take call. As the BU, I'm never assuming the PU is going to be there anyway -- what if he trips over a bat or his own feet on the way to third? It's my call until I recognize he's going to be there (or he calls me off), so I prepare for the play at first as though I'm going to have to bounce back anyway.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jophyal

rich, what rotation do you have with a runner on first as PU. we are trained to have play at third, if there is one. lets say that F4 chooses to make play at first and R1 rounds second and play is made on him at third. where are you?

I'm trailing up towards the left side of the mound and when I recognize F4 is throwing to first, I move in that direction in case a wild throw goes out of play or near a fence/line.

And if the ball gets thrown back to third, I'm ready to take a wild throw towards the fence/line and also am in a good position to make a call at the plate.

As you can tell, I've never really bought into making the PU cover third in this situation (where the ball doesn't leave the infield). I can easily get proper angles on both plays (at first and back at third) as the base umpire.

Last week I was working with a strange partner who showed up late for a DH and so I was prepared for anything. We had a routine ground ball hit with R1, play made to first, ball gets away, no fence, ball rolling towards DBT. My usual partners would have been on that ball, but instead this guy was standing at third base (even though the runner didn't try to advance until the throw got away).

(I'm OK with a partner wanting to cover third, but I think the discussion changes when there's no fence and we have to deal with DBT lines on the field.)