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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 10, 2011, 01:01pm
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Question over rule or not

I was working as the BU when PU declared dead ball after batter was hit by pitch. The pitch struck the ground before hitting the batter and the PU did not award the batter first base. This was a game between 12 year old teams, and neither coach said anything about the call. As BU should I have over ruled and overturned the PU's call and awarded batter first base? I was told the PU was experienced so I wasn't sure what his reaction would have been if I had done this. My goal is to get the call right.
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Old Sun Apr 10, 2011, 01:07pm
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By rule, you cannot overrule him. You can give him information that might convince him to change his call, but he must be the one to change it.
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Old Sun Apr 10, 2011, 03:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
By rule, you cannot overrule him. You can give him information that might convince him to change his call, but he must be the one to change it.
Information such as, "You'd be a moron not to award that kid 1B, cuz he was HBP!"
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Old Sun Apr 10, 2011, 04:23pm
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Information such as, "You'd be a moron not to award that kid 1B, cuz he was HBP!"

Unless, of course, he had reason, by rule, to not award the base. It happens.

Last edited by MrUmpire; Sun Apr 10, 2011 at 05:08pm.
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Old Sun Apr 10, 2011, 04:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb33 View Post
I was working as the BU when PU declared dead ball after batter was hit by pitch. The pitch struck the ground before hitting the batter and the PU did not award the batter first base. This was a game between 12 year old teams, and neither coach said anything about the call. As BU should I have over ruled and overturned the PU's call and awarded batter first base? I was told the PU was experienced so I wasn't sure what his reaction would have been if I had done this. My goal is to get the call right.
Might be some other reason he did not award, like allowing himself to be hit. In any event, I think this is good post game discussion, since no one complained and he did not ask for help.
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 01:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb33 View Post
I was working as the BU when PU declared dead ball after batter was hit by pitch. The pitch struck the ground before hitting the batter and the PU did not award the batter first base. As BU should I have over ruled and overturned the PU's call and awarded batter first base? My goal is to get the call right.
Congratulations on your sincere devotion to ethical officiating.

You cannot overrule PU. Buy him a pizza, point out his error. Make sure he picks up the check.
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 06:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb33 View Post
I was working as the BU when PU declared dead ball after batter was hit by pitch. The pitch struck the ground before hitting the batter and the PU did not award the batter first base. This was a game between 12 year old teams, and neither coach said anything about the call. As BU should I have over ruled and overturned the PU's call and awarded batter first base? I was told the PU was experienced so I wasn't sure what his reaction would have been if I had done this. My goal is to get the call right.
Just because he has been doing it longer than you doesn't mean he knows the rules or is a better umpire than you.
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 08:56am
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Originally Posted by DG View Post
Might be some other reason he did not award, like allowing himself to be hit. In any event, I think this is good post game discussion, since no one complained and he did not ask for help.
See myth # 29.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 09:26am
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I hate the "get the call right" mentality.

It should be "get the procedure right".

On a play like this, the manager needs to do his job. He needs to go to the PU, ask what he had, and if he'd get help from the BU on the call.

Maybe the PU thought the batter should have moved, and intentionally held his ground. Who knows? But there's a proper way for these things to play out.
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 09:38am
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Originally Posted by kylejt View Post
I hate the "get the call right" mentality.

It should be "get the procedure right".
I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.
Quote:
On a play like this, the manager needs to do his job. He needs to go to the PU, ask what he had, and if he'd get help from the BU on the call.

Maybe the PU thought the batter should have moved, and intentionally held his ground. Who knows? But there's a proper way for these things to play out.
Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 09:47am
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How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.

Last edited by kylejt; Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 11:35am.
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 11:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
See myth # 29.
Rich,

Im surprised you didnt say,

"The umpire wasn't or isn't calling that today time to shut up"

or direct quote

"The umpire already made it clear he was calling it. It won't get fixed mid game. Time to shut up."
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 03:18pm
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Why are we assuming PU made the wrong call? Why would you, as BU, make that assumption on the field? Wow. If I made this call and you marched in to try to "overrule" me, you'd keep going and I'd work the rest alone. What nonsense.
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 06:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylejt View Post
How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.
Which is what I said was preferable.
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Old Mon Apr 11, 2011, 07:02pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Why are we assuming PU made the wrong call? Why would you, as BU, make that assumption on the field? Wow. If I made this call and you marched in to try to "overrule" me, you'd keep going and I'd work the rest alone. What nonsense.
When I see it happen with my eyes, I don't consider that assuming. The batter tried to avoid the pitch and was hit. The kid should be awarded first base. If you would have made the same call as the PU in this game then you would have been wrong to. Just saying...

Last edited by cb33; Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:12pm.
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