over rule or not

[bob jenkins]

If you offer unsolicited help on some of the plays mentioned here, you might as well "vote" on every call.

Some calls (including most "rule mistakes") get unsolicited help. Some don't. Some can't be changed even if help is sought. Knowing when to do what (as either the calling umpire or the non-calling umpire) is part of the art of umpiring.

The NCAA book privides some good guidance here.

On the OP -- if I don't know why PU kept the runner at the plate, I let it go. Maybe he judged the batter moved into the pitch (that's a judgement call). If I hear that he kept the batter there because "the ball bounced", then it becomes a rules issue and I'm far more likely to go in.

[MikeStrybel]

Bob, kick this one around:

No one on, one out. Batter swings at the pitch and the ball goes down, rolling fifteen feet or so to where the F5 (playing in) grabs it in fair territory. PU IMMEDIATELY signals fair and takes a step or two towards the ball. F5 makes the throw to F3. The batter is hopping up and down on one foot and the HC is declaring that the ball was foul, off the batter's foot while in the box. You see the batter's reaction and had watched the ball hit the his foot, or at least the best you could see from 100+ feet away. Your PU gave an adamant signal IMMEDIATELY. Do you kill the play? Do you wait for him to ask your help? Agree with him or give what you had?

Admittedly, a foul is a quick, fairly easy call for a BU to assist on. However, this play involves a PU who IMMEDIATELY points fair (yes, waiting for a touch or stoppage is the correct mechanic but not in play here). Do you interject?

[jophyal]

Mike,
Did you see the ball hit batter's foot before BU called "fair"?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Do you interject?

If I see it, I kill it. If I don't kill it, I didn't see it (so don't come to me for help).

This is a call, like balks, infield fly, check swing, with joint responsibility. If either umpire sees it, get it.

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If I see it, I kill it. If I don't kill it, I didn't see it (so don't come to me for help).

This is a call, like balks, infield fly, check swing, with joint responsibility. If either umpire sees it, get it.

Exactly, great advice. Make the call based on what you see and know happened. Leave everything else to your partner(s) to make the call(s) as they saw them.

Thanks
David

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

You obviously don't know what I mean by "crew integrity," so just keep on keeping on.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

IMO, you're too smart to actually believe this. You're just arguing for arguing's sake.

There are several guys who have come and gone from these boards that have taken this avenue. I hope you're not another one.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

IMO, you're too smart to actually believe this. You're just arguing for arguing's sake.

There are several guys who have come and gone from these boards that have taken this avenue. I hope you're not another one.

His only role here is to troll. Best advice is to simply put him on the Ignore List and then only have to deal with the tripe others quote.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Bob, kick this one around:

No one on, one out. Batter swings at the pitch and the ball goes down, rolling fifteen feet or so to where the F5 (playing in) grabs it in fair territory. PU IMMEDIATELY signals fair and takes a step or two towards the ball. F5 makes the throw to F3. The batter is hopping up and down on one foot and the HC is declaring that the ball was foul, off the batter's foot while in the box. You see the batter's reaction and had watched the ball hit the his foot, or at least the best you could see from 100+ feet away. Your PU gave an adamant signal IMMEDIATELY. Do you kill the play? Do you wait for him to ask your help? Agree with him or give what you had?

Admittedly, a foul is a quick, fairly easy call for a BU to assist on. However, this play involves a PU who IMMEDIATELY points fair (yes, waiting for a touch or stoppage is the correct mechanic but not in play here). Do you interject?

Well ... I'm 100 feet away, he's right there and making a rather emphatic call - I'm assuming he has reason to do so. If he asks me for input, I'll tell him what I saw. While it LOOKS to me like it hit the batter, he's closer and he's obviously being firm for a reason. Perhaps the ball hit a funky part of the ground in the batters box causing the weird bounce... I don't know. I'm definitely asking in the locker room... but there's no WAY I'm interjecting my 100-feet away judgement in a case like this.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

His only role here is to troll. Best advice is to simply put him on the Ignore List and then only have to deal with the tripe others quote.

That's a shame, as he actually has some sort of grasp of umpiring, not like the others.

Oh well.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

That's a shame, as he actually has some sort of grasp of umpiring, not like the others.

Oh well.

Of course he does. I'm guessing he's a fairly decent umpire who knows exactly what to post to rile up the masses and that he believes almost none of it. Perfect troll.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But as Snaqs said, there are always ball-watchers among us.

This was the best lesson I ever learned when I was a young football official--stick to your responsibilities, even when the play goes away from you.

But it makes me wonder in baseball. In football, we usually have 5 officials for varsity games, and there are more the higher up you get. Yet it seems that for varsity baseball games, there are less officials. Are these numbers of officials less because there are less responsibilities, the action slower, etc? Also, I presume each official has an area of responsibility. So, in football, if the BJ is throwing a flag for roughing the passer, I'm guessing is akin to the BU calling balls/strikes?

[jophyal]

in our area, budget cuts and cheaper schools still have two man umpire crews for varsity games. that includes some state power house 5A schools.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jophyal

in our area, budget cuts and cheaper schools still have two man umpire crews for varsity games. that includes some state power house 5A schools.

In our area, NCAA D3 baseball is played with 2 umpires until you get to the conference tournaments. For 99% of HS baseball games, 3 umpires (IMO) would be overkill. Better to take that money and add more officials in football or basketball (where we still do a lot of 2-person).

[jophyal]

point(s) taken...