over rule or not

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

Man, I was really on a role agreeing with StB when all of a sudden he comes in with this. On calls that belong to your partner, you let your partner make the call. No "overruling". If you have information you want to pass on you can signal your partner to that effect (using the signal agreed upon in your pre-game). If he wants your help he can come to you. If one of the HC's doesn't think it is important enough to come out and ask about the call or ask your partner to get help, it's no longer any concern of yours - play ball. Get the call right, but don't go stepping on toes ("Fools rush in"). Follow proper procedure first.

[Simply The Best]

Me:Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

On calls that belong to your partner, you let your partner make the call. No "overruling".

Which I said earlier in this thread.

1.If you have information you want to pass on you can signal your partner to that effect (using the signal agreed upon in your pre-game). 2.If he wants your help he can come to you. 3. If one of the HC's doesn't think it is important enough to come out and ask about the call or ask your partner to get help, it's no longer any concern of yours - play ball.

1. - Correct. 2. Agree. 3.No way. If you know your partner has the wrong call, you need to let him know. Waiting for a manger to catch the incorrect call is unethical and serves the game, the players ans the officials poorly.

Get the call right, but don't go stepping on toes ("Fools rush in"). Follow proper procedure first.

Toes heal. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

[Adam]

In basketball, this is known as ball-watching, and is always justified by "get the call right" newer officials who don't understand the importance of procedure, primary coverage, and crew integrity. It's the same guy who would respond to a coach by saying, "Yeah, coach, I thought it was a bad call too, but he won't budge. Sorry."

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In basketball, this is known as ball-watching, and is always justified by "get the call right" newer officials who don't understand the importance of procedure, primary coverage, and crew integrity.

Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

You obviously don't know what I mean by "crew integrity," so just keep on keeping on.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You obviously don't know what I mean by "crew integrity," so just keep on keeping on.

Could be. I take it to mean the crew's decisions, their fairness and their reputations as sincere arbiters of the game reflect their integrity as officials. Or lack thereof.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Could be. I take it to mean the crew's decisions, their fairness and their reputations as sincere arbiters of the game reflect their integrity as officials. Or lack thereof.

No it means that if you are making decisions for your partners when an umpire/official is in the right position, every call or decision should be up for debate. And if every play is up for debate, a coach should every time he does not like a call go to the partner for "help" or to "get it right." This is why you use procedures to change things and not every call is up for debate no matter what your opinion is. That is what he is referring to, not sure what integrity has to do with this when an official is standing on top of a play and makes a judgment. Heck we all can have an opinion, but that does not mean our opinion from 100 feet away is right.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Me:Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

That is great but just because you come in from 100 feet away does not mean you got it right either.

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

1. - Correct. 2. Agree. 3.No way. If you know your partner has the wrong call, you need to let him know. Waiting for a manger to catch the incorrect call is unethical and serves the game, the players ans the officials poorly.

What do you mean "know your partner has the wrong call?" Most judgment calls are just that, judgments. If they are in the right position how am I going to "know when they got something right or wrong all the time?" It is one thing if we are talking about rules, but a judgment call means that they made a judgment call. This situation we are talking about is a judgment call. Those can have different opinions. This has nothing to do with ethics, this has to do with the umpire have responsibilities and if you want to do their job, maybe you need to be on that field alone. Or they do not need to be there at all if they cannot do their job.

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Toes heal. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

Yes and in life many people have different roles or jobs to do. That is why in the medical profession you have different levels of nurses and different doctors doing different things to possibly help in a hospital.

If procedure does not matter, why as base umpires we do not give our opinion on a checked swing until we are asked? Or better yet why do you not see BUs give ball/strike calls? Do not say procedures do not matter when we use them all the time in our job as umpires.

Peace

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is great but just because you come in from 100 feet away does not mean you got it right either.
What do you mean "know your partner has the wrong call?"

Partner makes call. Partner is wrong. E.g. he didn't see the ball not caught because it landed out of his sight line. C'mon, Rut, surely you don't need this explained to you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Partner makes call. Partner is wrong. E.g. he didn't see the ball not caught because it landed out of his sight line. C'mon, Rut, surely you don't need this explained to you.

You are the one that said throw out the procedures. I never said that we should not get plays right, but I am not going to dismiss a partner's call because I think they got it wrong either without following a procedure. I think you need to spell out what you mean if the suggestion is anyone can come in and change an "incorrect" call they believe took place. You should be clearer or specific as to what you mean. I am not trying to read your mind.

Peace