over rule or not

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I hate the "get the call right" mentality.

It should be "get the procedure right".

I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.

On a play like this, the manager needs to do his job. He needs to go to the PU, ask what he had, and if he'd get help from the BU on the call.

Maybe the PU thought the batter should have moved, and intentionally held his ground. Who knows? But there's a proper way for these things to play out.

Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

[kylejt]

How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by kylejt

How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.

Which is what I said was preferable.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

How far are you willing to take this? Are you also going jump the gun on checkswings, without waiting for the PU to ask you? At what point are we going to require the manager to do his job?

I'm all for getting the calls right, but the proper procedure needs to be maintained to do so.

This is why I also hate the "We got to get it right" crowd as well. If we are not out there to get it right we should not be out there. But that does not mean we should not allow people to do their job and if they make a mistake, they make a mistake.

Peace

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If we are not out there to get it right we should not be out there. But that does not mean we should not allow people to do their job and if they make a mistake, they make a mistake.

Which ultimately means you're first sentence above is BS, Rut.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Which ultimately means you're first sentence above is BS, Rut.

First of all most of what I read from you is BS and that appears to be what the majority here think.

Secondly I come from an officiating background that if you cannot do the job they will find someone else to do it in your place. Or you will not be working very long. Not everyone can save us from a missed call. And if you can see what I am doing several feet away, what the heck did you miss? Half the time I do not even see plays my partner are involved in because I am watching other things. But as Snaqs said, there are always ball-watchers among us.

Peace

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But as Snaqs said, there are always ball-watchers among us.

This was the best lesson I ever learned when I was a young football official--stick to your responsibilities, even when the play goes away from you.

But it makes me wonder in baseball. In football, we usually have 5 officials for varsity games, and there are more the higher up you get. Yet it seems that for varsity baseball games, there are less officials. Are these numbers of officials less because there are less responsibilities, the action slower, etc? Also, I presume each official has an area of responsibility. So, in football, if the BJ is throwing a flag for roughing the passer, I'm guessing is akin to the BU calling balls/strikes?

[jophyal]

in our area, budget cuts and cheaper schools still have two man umpire crews for varsity games. that includes some state power house 5A schools.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Suudy

But it makes me wonder in baseball. In football, we usually have 5 officials for varsity games, and there are more the higher up you get. Yet it seems that for varsity baseball games, there are less officials. Are these numbers of officials less because there are less responsibilities, the action slower, etc?

There is probably no 1 answer, as different area/states have different budget issues. In my area of Ohio, we use 2 umpires, I believe primarily because baseball is a non revenue sport, vs football/basketball with ticket sales.

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

I hate when umpires play with words instead of centering on getting the call right regardless.Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

Man, I was really on a role agreeing with StB when all of a sudden he comes in with this. On calls that belong to your partner, you let your partner make the call. No "overruling". If you have information you want to pass on you can signal your partner to that effect (using the signal agreed upon in your pre-game). If he wants your help he can come to you. If one of the HC's doesn't think it is important enough to come out and ask about the call or ask your partner to get help, it's no longer any concern of yours - play ball. Get the call right, but don't go stepping on toes ("Fools rush in"). Follow proper procedure first.

[Simply The Best]

Me:Screw proper. Get the call right. Properly if possible, or not.

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

On calls that belong to your partner, you let your partner make the call. No "overruling".

Which I said earlier in this thread.

1.If you have information you want to pass on you can signal your partner to that effect (using the signal agreed upon in your pre-game). 2.If he wants your help he can come to you. 3. If one of the HC's doesn't think it is important enough to come out and ask about the call or ask your partner to get help, it's no longer any concern of yours - play ball.

1. - Correct. 2. Agree. 3.No way. If you know your partner has the wrong call, you need to let him know. Waiting for a manger to catch the incorrect call is unethical and serves the game, the players ans the officials poorly.

Get the call right, but don't go stepping on toes ("Fools rush in"). Follow proper procedure first.

Toes heal. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

[Adam]

In basketball, this is known as ball-watching, and is always justified by "get the call right" newer officials who don't understand the importance of procedure, primary coverage, and crew integrity. It's the same guy who would respond to a coach by saying, "Yeah, coach, I thought it was a bad call too, but he won't budge. Sorry."

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In basketball, this is known as ball-watching, and is always justified by "get the call right" newer officials who don't understand the importance of procedure, primary coverage, and crew integrity.

Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

You obviously don't know what I mean by "crew integrity," so just keep on keeping on.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Under your definition the crew has no integrity if they are willing to overlook a wrong call when one of the crew knows that is the case. Ultimately, it is all about how you perceive yourself as an official and a person and how you wish to lead your life, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You obviously don't know what I mean by "crew integrity," so just keep on keeping on.

Could be. I take it to mean the crew's decisions, their fairness and their reputations as sincere arbiters of the game reflect their integrity as officials. Or lack thereof.