Dropped Third Strike - Check Swing

[barkmo]

OBR:
No runners, 0 outs. 0 balls, 2 strikes
Pitch in dirt, batter half swing, ruled ball by home umpire. Catcher first tags runner then appeals for ruling on check swing. Base ump rules swing.

Question does the timing of the tag matter in this situation? What if catcher throw ball into LF (over throws 3B)?

[mbyron]

The timing of the tag does not matter. The BR is out if he's tagged, even if the appeal happens after the tag. The batter becomes a runner (and so is liable to be tagged out) after a third strike not legally caught, not after the BU rules on the half swing. So your "overthrow" is irrelevant (I assume F2 is throwing the ball around after the K).

When I'm BU, this is the situation where I will give my ruling on a half swing without being asked. I follow the Bob Jenkins school on this point, and will come up with my ruling when:

1. the batter offered
2. the PU doesn't get it immediately
3. F2 doesn't legally catch the pitch, and
4. the BR can run (2 outs or no R1)

The rationale for jumping in with this call is fairness to the BR.

[TussAgee11]

Voluntary strike - the BU can, and should, call strike if he has a swing once PU has ruled no swing on a D3K.

[bob jenkins]

Agreed w/ mbyron and TussAgee, but it's a reasonably advanced mechanic. That is, if you do it as BU with an inexperienced PU and no pre-game on it, expect a "deer in the headlights" look at best.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by barkmo

What if catcher throw ball into LF (over throws 3B)?

Why would F2 be throwing toward LF, no runners were on base?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Why would F2 be throwing toward LF, no runners were on base?

Throwing it around the infield after the K. I had to ponder that a moment, too.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Throwing it around the infield after the K. I had to ponder that a moment, too.

Makes sense

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed w/ mbyron and TussAgee, but it's a reasonably advanced mechanic. That is, if you do it as BU with an inexperienced PU and no pre-game on it, expect a "deer in the headlights" look at best.

Better to get it right than worry about an inexperienced partner's overreaction. Well done, Bob!

[dileonardoja]

This definitely needs a pregame. And if you pregame it the mechanic should be for the PU going to BU IMMEDIATELY after the uncaught 3rd strike/check swing.

Initiation by the BU can create a bad situation. For example, say it was a full count and the PU has a checked swing (thus BB). Now here comes BU with a reversal when DEF hasn't appealed or PU hasn't asked for help . OC is going to get fired up.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by dileonardoja

Initiation by the BU can create a bad situation. For example, say it was a full count and the PU has a checked swing (thus BB). Now here comes BU with a reversal when DEF hasn't appealed or PU hasn't asked for help . OC is going to get fired up.

If it gives his BR a chance to reach 1B, he won't say a word.

This is, as others have pointed out, an advanced mechanic. If you're not comfortable using it, then don't. But it does not have bad consequences when used properly.

[MikeStrybel]

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the BU make the call on a check swing WITHOUT the PU asking for help?

[UmpJM]

MikeStrybel,

Although it's not entirely clear from your post who you are responding to, if it's any of mbyron, TussAgee, or Bob Jenkins, that's not EXACTLY what they're saying - but it's close.

I believe they are suggesting that in this sitch, IDEALLY the PU will go to his BU immediately, even if the defense does not immediately request that he do so.

However, under this advanced mechanic, should the PU should fail to come to him immediately, the BU is instructed to make the call of strike (assuming he judged an "offer", of course.) even without being asked by the PU.

Yes, I'm sure.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the BU make the call on a check swing WITHOUT the PU asking for help?

Standard Mechanic: PU waits for coach or catcher to ask, then asks BU.

Advanced Mechanic: PU asks without being asked.

Really Advanced Mechanic: BU responds, even if not asked (but gives PU a beat or two to ask), and then only if it's a strike AND if B can become BR.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the BU make the call on a check swing WITHOUT the PU asking for help?

Yep. Bob listed when. (How long have you been gone? This has been an accepted mechanic in NCAA for quite some time and worked its way to high school years ago.)

It prevents the batter from becoming a sitting duck.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really Advanced Mechanic: BU responds, even if not asked (but gives PU a beat or two to ask), and then only if it's a strike AND if B can become BR.

Really advanced. In my instruction, this is really basic. Others MMV.