Dropped Third Strike - Check Swing

[bob jenkins]

Agreed w/ mbyron and TussAgee, but it's a reasonably advanced mechanic. That is, if you do it as BU with an inexperienced PU and no pre-game on it, expect a "deer in the headlights" look at best.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed w/ mbyron and TussAgee, but it's a reasonably advanced mechanic. That is, if you do it as BU with an inexperienced PU and no pre-game on it, expect a "deer in the headlights" look at best.

Better to get it right than worry about an inexperienced partner's overreaction. Well done, Bob!

[dileonardoja]

This definitely needs a pregame. And if you pregame it the mechanic should be for the PU going to BU IMMEDIATELY after the uncaught 3rd strike/check swing.

Initiation by the BU can create a bad situation. For example, say it was a full count and the PU has a checked swing (thus BB). Now here comes BU with a reversal when DEF hasn't appealed or PU hasn't asked for help . OC is going to get fired up.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by dileonardoja

Initiation by the BU can create a bad situation. For example, say it was a full count and the PU has a checked swing (thus BB). Now here comes BU with a reversal when DEF hasn't appealed or PU hasn't asked for help . OC is going to get fired up.

If it gives his BR a chance to reach 1B, he won't say a word.

This is, as others have pointed out, an advanced mechanic. If you're not comfortable using it, then don't. But it does not have bad consequences when used properly.

[MikeStrybel]

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the BU make the call on a check swing WITHOUT the PU asking for help?

[UmpJM]

MikeStrybel,

Although it's not entirely clear from your post who you are responding to, if it's any of mbyron, TussAgee, or Bob Jenkins, that's not EXACTLY what they're saying - but it's close.

I believe they are suggesting that in this sitch, IDEALLY the PU will go to his BU immediately, even if the defense does not immediately request that he do so.

However, under this advanced mechanic, should the PU should fail to come to him immediately, the BU is instructed to make the call of strike (assuming he judged an "offer", of course.) even without being asked by the PU.

Yes, I'm sure.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the BU make the call on a check swing WITHOUT the PU asking for help?

Standard Mechanic: PU waits for coach or catcher to ask, then asks BU.

Advanced Mechanic: PU asks without being asked.

Really Advanced Mechanic: BU responds, even if not asked (but gives PU a beat or two to ask), and then only if it's a strike AND if B can become BR.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Really Advanced Mechanic: BU responds, even if not asked (but gives PU a beat or two to ask), and then only if it's a strike AND if B can become BR.

Really advanced. In my instruction, this is really basic. Others MMV.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Standard Mechanic: PU waits for coach or catcher to ask, then asks BU.

Advanced Mechanic: PU asks without being asked.

Really Advanced Mechanic: BU responds, even if not asked (but gives PU a beat or two to ask), and then only if it's a strike AND if B can become BR.

In answer to the question posed by another, I was out of the country for 6 years. I worked closely with MLB Asia during that time doing umpire development in several countries. I never saw the BU make a call w/o being appealed to. I understand the concept but can't say I am comfortable calling a strike w/o having my partner prompt my intervention. I also would be a bit concerned if he made the call without me asking for help. A couple guys here have worked with me and know this is not ego being displayed. I have gone for help without coach/catcher prompting for about a decade now. I have no problem asking for assistance in an effort to allow the players to decide the game rather than my missed call. Do any of you make your appeal call aftetr the catcher points to you? It would seem that it could be construed as if you are responding to that rather than your partner.

Does anyone have a video link of NCAA or MLB umpires making such a call without being appealed to? I would love to see it in action.

For what it's worth, while I was gone I ran into a guy who worked one of the recent Olympics baseball series. I was used to calling the "ball" and saying "no, he didn't" as emphasis. He taught me to abandon that mechanic because few things look worse than a PU being assertive in proclaiming the batter did not strike at the pitch on to hear, "yes, he did!" a second after he points down for help. I learned a valuable lesson that day and maybe this mechanic will wind up working its way into my games sooner than not.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that the BU make the call on a check swing WITHOUT the PU asking for help?

Yep. Bob listed when. (How long have you been gone? This has been an accepted mechanic in NCAA for quite some time and worked its way to high school years ago.)

It prevents the batter from becoming a sitting duck.