The batter attempts to bunt with 2 strikes but POPS it up

[MikeStrybel]

This question was on the NCAA test. My immediate thought is that the batter is out and the ball is dead the second the catcher touches it. Runners cannot advance and must return. Penalties in baseball are designed to punish the person/team at fault - in this case, the batter.

If the catcher had not caught the ball the result would still be the same, right?

I answered it this way. If it was wrong I'll know in a couple days. Good luck.

[johnnyg08]

No catch, it's a strike out. Catch, runner can retouch and attempt to advance. I think you're thinking too much about penalty versus just watching baseball and letting it happened.

[yawetag]

This is a situation where F2 screwed up by catching the ball. Granted, in most situations, no runner will advance. However, by letting the ball drop foul, the ball's dead and the runners can't advance.

[MikeStrybel]

I have a lote/hate relationship with these questions. I enjoy discussing them but hate seeing them on tests. I appreciate the thoughts but want to ask a couple things:
1) The batted ball is not foul until it is touched while on or over foul terrirtory. By definition, it is a dead ball at the time that happens, right?

2) Yes, I know that a caught fly ball, even foul, is live. But does the bunt attempt supersede it?

2) If that is the case, it is a TOP play, right?

I have pored over J/R and can't find a definitive ruling. Anyone have the EXACT ruling to substantiate our call here?

My test has already been submitted and I passed. My questions are for discussion and improvement only. Thanks again.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I have a lote/hate relationship with these questions. I enjoy discussing them but hate seeing them on tests. I appreciate the thoughts but want to ask a couple things:
1) The batted ball is not foul until it is touched while on or over foul terrirtory. By definition, it is a dead ball at the time that happens, right?

Read tehe "when a ball becomes dead" section (I'm without my books, so that might not be the correct title). Does it say the ball is dead on a foul, or on an UNCAUGHT foul?

[yawetag]

5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when— (e) A foul ball is not caught; runners return. The umpire shall not put the ball in play until all runners have retouched their bases;

6.05 A batter is out when— (a) His fair or foul fly ball (other than a foul tip) is legally caught by a fielder;
Comment: Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead.

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it; providing he does not use his cap, protector, pocket or any other part of his uniform in getting possession.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Read tehe "when a ball becomes dead" section (I'm without my books, so that might not be the correct title). Does it say the ball is dead on a foul, or on an UNCAUGHT foul?

Bob,
A foul is not foul until touched or it comes to a stop on foul ground. As this ball was touched and secured, as the result of an attempted bunt with two strikes, by rule it should be immediately dead. Obviously we have an issue of whether the foul third strike supersedes a foul catch. So far I haven't seen anything that I can use to call this a live ball. I hate these plays but know that it wouldn't be in there unless it happened to one of us and will again. Thanks.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Jaksa/Roder

A batter is out when
(3) his third strike is uncaught because it was bunted foul,

Originally Posted by Jim Evans Annotated

5.09(d) Professional Interpretation #1: A ball that is bunted foul on 3rd strike may be caught for an out and the ball remains alive and in play. If it is not caught in flight, the ball is dead and all runners return in accordance with 5.09(d).

What else do you want?

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Bob,
A foul is not foul until touched or it comes to a stop on foul ground. As this ball was touched and secured, as the result of an attempted bunt with two strikes, by rule it should be immediately dead. Obviously we have an issue of whether the foul third strike supersedes a foul catch. So far I haven't seen anything that I can use to call this a live ball. I hate these plays but know that it wouldn't be in there unless it happened to one of us and will again. Thanks.

"Obviously we have an issue of whether the foul third strike supersedes a foul catch."

No, "we" don't. One of us is confusing "touched" with caught, they are not the same.

A ball that is in flight off the bat that is "caught" can never be foul.
It's a caught fly ball and caught fly balls are live.

A ball that was foul, can not be caught, because it either hit (beyond 1B-3B), settled, was touched (read booted), or hit something over foul territory.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I have a lote/hate relationship with these questions. I enjoy discussing them but hate seeing them on tests.

I hate seeing a lot of them in the games!

JJ

[celebur]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

My immediate thought is that the batter is out and the ball is dead the second the catcher touches it. Runners cannot advance and must return. Penalties in baseball are designed to punish the person/team at fault - in this case, the batter.

Using that logic, if you call this a dead ball, you are punishing the defense by preventing them from attempting to get a second out on this play. That's not punishing the batter at all!

[JerzeeRef]

Page 29, College Baseball Rules Study Guide.

Batter is out:

D. With two strikes, he bunts foul (7-11i). If the ball is caught in flight, it remains live; otherwise the ball is dead immediately.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by JerzeeRef

Page 29, College Baseball Rules Study Guide.

Batter is out:

D. With two strikes, he bunts foul (7-11i). If the ball is caught in flight, it remains live; otherwise the ball is dead immediately.

I've been reading that one the last couple of weeks too. Now I have that one and the new BRD to page through...that should tie me over until April when I can start umpiring again and the 4 feet of snow is gone.

[pastordoug]

How about FED ruling? 7-4-1e "an attempt to bunt on thrird strike is a foul." Same play mentioned in OP but following FED you have an out with dead ball... Some of us still doing HS but always trying to learn.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

How about FED ruling? 7-4-1e "an attempt to bunt on thrird strike is a foul." Same play mentioned in OP but following FED you have an out with dead ball... Some of us still doing HS but always trying to learn.

7-4-1-e says it's an out for bunting foul on the third strike

and 5-1-1-d-3 says it becomes dead if it becomes an UNCAUGHT foul