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Old Sun Apr 20, 2003, 05:01am
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As the PU how do you decide if the batter tried to bunt the ball or was it actually a swing.
I had this yesterday, and the U of D coach thought the batter tried to bunt, I said it was a swing. She asked if I could confir with my partner, which I did. We decided it was a swing,ok, we play on. At the end of the inning, she asked me if I could explain why it wasn't a bunt, and how I came to that decision. I told her that the determining factor was that she passed the bat through the strike zone, with a breaking of the wrists. Sort of like a short check swing. An attempted bunt would be just presenting the bat at the ball with a push. I never really thought about attaching a definition to a bunt, I always knew it when I say it.
The NCAA defination is: A legally batted ball not swung at but intentionally tapped with the bat.
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Old Sun Apr 20, 2003, 06:35am
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I'm pretty sure I could not do any better explaining the difference than you already didm Bob. I suspect that what we watch on that are about the same. May not explain it too well, but I know it when I see it............

Steve M
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Old Sun Apr 20, 2003, 02:58pm
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Also, for a slap (non-bunt), I usually look for the barrel end of the bat moving forward more than the handle end, especially if the hands are close together.
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Old Sun Apr 20, 2003, 03:04pm
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Talking

Bob,

Sounds like a good call from the way you presented it.
Your explanation was great also. A good explanation
will win the battle half the time, the other half be-
cause it was in you judgement.

glen

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Old Sun Apr 20, 2003, 03:35pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Bob,

Sounds like a good call from the way you presented it.
Your explanation was great also. A good explanation
will win the battle half the time, the other half be-
cause it was in you judgement.

glen

Glen,

You don't know this coach. She can be tough, especially on umpires she likes.

Bob's must not be her type, after all, she hasn't tried to take a red pencil to his name yet.

Just kidding. Only accolades for Bob from the UD Fightin' Blue Hens coach.

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Old Mon Apr 21, 2003, 11:23am
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I agree with Steve that I know a bunt attempt when I see it, but a rule of thumb that I have used is that on a bunt, the ball comes to the bat, on a swing, the bat goes to the ball.
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Old Mon Apr 21, 2003, 01:29pm
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By coincidence, I had an instance of this last weekend, and I'm not sure I called it right, though nobody said anything.

With 2 strikes, the batter appeared to check her swing, but to me it looked odd because it seemed a little early—slightly more like positioning the bat than checking an attempt to swing. She then held that checked swing over the plate and fouled the ball off. She did not move the bat toward the ball, but instead sort of froze her checked swing right where the ball was going to be. That's why I let it go, but I think I should have called it an attempted bunt and therefore an out.

Don't see that often, but it's a good question, and I'm glad somebody brought it up.
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Old Mon Apr 21, 2003, 02:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy
I agree with Steve that I know a bunt attempt when I see it, but a rule of thumb that I have used is that on a bunt, the ball comes to the bat, on a swing, the bat goes to the ball.
This sounds good to me! However, I want to look at Mike's post with the beating heart! He must REALLY like this coach!
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Old Tue Apr 22, 2003, 06:41pm
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attempt at direction sometimes sways it

Kentucky Blue writes:
I raised some ire as BU in a B-level tourney game with a swaggering arrogant bunch of former baseball minor leaguers playing a team WAY beneath their ability. (Trophy hunting games set my jaw, don't they yours.) The other team, knowing they were WAY outclassed, played their infielders way back from the first pitch, and their right-handed leadoff guy punched it gently on the ground halfway up the 3B line. At the end of his bunt he let the big end of the bat go so it looked enough like a swing to fool PU, who was partially blocked by his angle and the catcher. He suspected something anyway and came to me for help (or else I never would have said anything of course) so I told PU he should ring him up for bunting, and he did. WILD indignity from the entire team of minor leaguers, who were used to pushing umpires around because they were all such superstars. (The manager upbraided another partner of mine for being casual in his choice of uniform clothes, saying that HE hadn't brought eight single-A ballplayers to a field to be called out by a guy dressed like that etc. etc.)Apparently bunting for a base hit was leadoff guy's favorite thing to do and he hadn't been called on it before. We played the rest of the game, they gave me the minimum federal standard daily dose of hell on every call of mine, routine or not, close or distant, and they won handily and advanced beyond where I had to bother with them.

In mentally reviewing why I called him out for bunting even though he technically swung (true, the swing would have embarrassed a 10U, but yes, it COULD have been called a swing), I decided it was because he had observably PLACED the ball. I know you can swing for placement too, but you're more picking generally the side of the field you want to hit to, or choosing to hit shallow or deep, than making a highly specific I'll-push-this-halfway-up-the-third-base-line placement typical of a bunt. I'm not doing a good job of explaining, guess YHTBT, but that might be one principle of calling bunt vs. swing in a close situation. --KB
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Old Wed Apr 23, 2003, 07:40am
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would it be a swing

Saw one yesterday that made me think of this. The batter was holding the bat in the basic bunt position, then moved it slightly forward across the plate to meet the ball, still holding the bat in a "push" position with both ends of the bat moving in parallel.
If the question came up, I would have ruled it a bunt. By the "on a bunt, the ball comes to the bat, on a swing, the bat goes to the ball" principle, would it be a swing? Even though she "passed the bat through the strike zone", there was no "breaking of the wrists".
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Old Wed Apr 23, 2003, 11:36am
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Re: would it be a swing

Quote:
Originally posted by CecilOne
Saw one yesterday that made me think of this. The batter was holding the bat in the basic bunt position, then moved it slightly forward across the plate to meet the ball, still holding the bat in a "push" position with both ends of the bat moving in parallel.
If the question came up, I would have ruled it a bunt. By the "on a bunt, the ball comes to the bat, on a swing, the bat goes to the ball" principle, would it be a swing? Even though she "passed the bat through the strike zone", there was no "breaking of the wrists".
Cecil,

My rule of thumb is more of a starting point than a hard and fast rule applicable to every situation. In visualizing the play you mentioned, I would rule it as a bunt attempt also. As I said in my earlier post, I know it when I see it.
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Old Wed Apr 23, 2003, 12:21pm
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Re: would it be a swing

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy
Cecil,

My rule of thumb is more of a starting point than a hard and fast rule applicable to every situation. In visualizing the play you mentioned, I would rule it as a bunt attempt also. As I said in my earlier post, I know it when I see it. [/B]
Good, thank you.
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