2-Man System Mechanic

[cookie]

The position of the BU in 2-Man mechanics with a runner on third only is in the C position. This is the standard as it is written in the CCA (2008), PBUC (2006), and NYSBUA (Jan 2010), and I have always adhered to that. In those references and the clinics I've been to, there has been no mention of moving to the B position with 2 outs. However, I've noticed some umpires on occasion move to the B position. I've always taken this to be optional, but a fellow umpire told me during a recent game that that it is the standard practice now. (Yes, with 2 outs the next play is likely going to to be at first, but there is still the possibilty of a quick throw by F2 down to third or a pick-off attempt by F1 on R3 - very likely in HS and Rec. leagues).

Do many of you upper level umpires move to the B position in this situation and has it become the STANDARD?

[umpjong]

Standard - No. Option - Yes. Try it and see if you are comfortable there, if not, then theres your answer for you....

[dash_riprock]

I prefer C to be in better position for a snap throw back to 3rd. If the batter hits a ground ball, on the crack of the bat R3 is on the way home and I am on the way to the other side of the field for the play at 1st. I don't think starting from the B gives me a significant advantage.

[mbyron]

I agree: not standard. Carl Childress has suggested the option of BU to be in B in EVERY situation with runners on. I've always wanted to try it.

I don't know whether I count as an "upper level" umpire, but I often move to B with R3 only regardless of outs. In the games I work, I can't recall the last time I saw a pickoff at 3B, which is the only rationale for starting in C.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In the games I work, I can't recall the last time I saw a pickoff at 3B, which is the only rationale for starting in C.

How about snap throws from F2?

[bob jenkins]

IHSA standard in BU in C only when a steal of third is "possible" (i.e., an R2 and no R3) So, they'd have us in B regardless of the number of outs.

I disagree with that, but use it when I work their games.

It's appropriate if BU can't move from C to get a good look at the play at first. For most of us, the starting position has almost no bearing on the ending position on those plays.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

IHSA standard in BU in C only when a steal of third is "possible" (i.e., an R2 and no R3) So, they'd have us in B regardless of the number of outs.

I disagree with that, but use it when I work their games.

B with R2, R3? I don't like that at all.

It's appropriate if BU can't move from C to get a good look at the play at first. For most of us, the starting position has almost no bearing on the ending position on those plays.

+1

[JJ]

With a runner on 3B and2 out, I always move back to B. Always have (for about 30 years). Can't remember if I was told to do it, but I always figured it would get me the extra step toward that inning ending play at first base.

JJ

[MrUmpire]

From C I have the perfect angle and distance on plays from throws from either F1 or F2.

Should the Batter hit the ball to the infield, I have more than enough time to adjust to a play at first.

B with, R3 only, requires adjustments on plays at both first and third and any call at third on a throw requires more of a "sell" from that distance.

I'll take C regardless of the outs.

[DG]

Originally Posted by cookie

The position of the BU in 2-Man mechanics with a runner on third only is in the C position.

If BU I am always in C with R3. No exceptions, never been a problem.

[cookie]

Thanks for the responses men. I'm now thinking that moving to the B position is pretty much still optional unless specifically designated by a member's organisation/league.

By "upper level" I had meant college ball and above wherever the 2-man system is utilized. (I had gone to a couple of MiLb games in my area this past summer, but I didn't pay any attention to this mechanic while I was watching the game; so I'll be watching the next time I'm at one.) I do HS and Babe Ruth baseball in the spring, and during the summer on occasion do Travel 19U & 18U, men's league games and a lot of 16U and below games, and I've always stayed in the C position. In lower level rec games, to me, it's a must to be in C. In those games, F1's attention seems always to be engaged by spunky (sometimes foolish) R3's, with an occasional throw there also by F2. This is probably not so in higher level games; thus the likelihood of the next play being at 1st for the inning ending out.

I do think that the B position, because of the few extra steps closer to 1st, will give the BU a better look at the play at 1st, especially with a pulled foot, swipe tag, or bobbled ball, etc.. I will be trying out the B on occasion to see what's like...

[jicecone]

I have found that generally you will get more throws to 3rd in the JV and younger levels and that is usually when I will be in the C position. Perception is, your closer to the play. So it requires a couple steps here or there to also get in position for the throw at first and again perception prevails.

Varsity and above there is by far less pickoff attemps at 3rd. I am in usually in B regardless of outs, with only R3. That "occasional" throw from F2 is an easy call from the B position.

What is right or wrong? Beats the hell out of me, as can be seen above. One thing for sure though, you have to get your butt in position to make the call no matter where it is. Head for the mound and put yourself in a position that is almost equi-distance from all bases no matter what position you start from. Picking a position and standing there like growing grass is going to get you in trouble sooner or later period.

[MD Longhorn]

Personally, I prefer the angle I get at first from C over the distance gained from B. If it was mechanically allowed, I'd start from C with ANY runners on base, anywhere... but alas it's not.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JJ

10 D1 conference tournaments, 5 D1 Regionals....I may qualify as "upper level"

JJ

It surprises me that either of those operate with just 2 umpires.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

It surprises me that either of those operate with just 2 umpires.

Can't speak to the conferences because I don't know to which he is referencing, but I believe all D-1 regionals are three man and have been for some time.