Scoring Dispute

[JJ]

If the base umpire is "required" to keep score, he SHOULD verify it regularly. If the home team has the "official book", the base umpire should not have to keep score - the two teams should check with each other every half inning to verify things.
This is a Murphy's Law thing - if a CF like this can happen, it will. You've covered your butts - kept score like you were supposed to - but that's not to say mistakes will NEVER happen even if you are doing what you're required to do. Courts are full of "He said - she said" cases. Fortunately your TD made the final decision. It's unfortunate it may not have been the RIGHT decision, but the monkey's off your back.
Now you get to decide if you need that $40 enough to keep doing those games.

JJ

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JJ

If the base umpire is "required" to keep score, he SHOULD verify it regularly. If the home team has the "official book", the base umpire should not have to keep score - the two teams should check with each other every half inning to verify things.
This is a Murphy's Law thing - if a CF like this can happen, it will. You've covered your butts - kept score like you were supposed to - but that's not to say mistakes will NEVER happen even if you are doing what you're required to do. Courts are full of "He said - she said" cases. Fortunately your TD made the final decision. It's unfortunate it may not have been the RIGHT decision, but the monkey's off your back.
Now you get to decide if you need that $40 enough to keep doing those games.

JJ

Verify it with whom? Do what with his score if it differs from someone else (like the home book)? If BU is keeping score, that's the score. I can see ANNOUNCING the score to the bookkeepers on both sides... but not verifying anything.

[DG]

Well first, I would not work a tournament where BU is required to keep score and lignups, but if I did when the game was over, per my score I am not waiting around an hour for TD to overule the responsibility given.

Sounds like a crock to me.

[ManInBlue]

At the U-trip tournaments I do, we have to keep a card to be the official count for the innings pitched for each pitcher of record. We also put the score on it. I don't count runs as they cross the plate. One or two, I can generally keep track of. We have "official" score keepers running the scoreboard. I'll glance at that to verify what I have. I do, from time to time, verify with one of the dugouts to see if I'm still on track. I'll usually check with the team that is behind at the moment. It just makes sense - however in this case it would have back fired. If we have a discrepency, I'll check with the other book. I've only had one case where the books didn't line up. I had the two get together, and they found the error.

It doesn't seem right at a tournament, where the flip of a coin determines home team to have that as the "official" book. Smells fishy to me. Visitor's book and BOTH umpires have 10-9, that's the score. Our UIC would have backed us up, I think.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Verify it with whom? Do what with his score if it differs from someone else (like the home book)? If BU is keeping score, that's the score. I can see ANNOUNCING the score to the bookkeepers on both sides... but not verifying anything.

Sorry, I guess "verify" is too technical/legal/picky for you. For me, "verify" means, "Hey, Team A, what have YOU got? And Team B, what have YOU got?" If they have differences, we sort them out before we start the next half inning. If THEY can't agree, they're idiots, and I "agree" for them.

JJ
PS I would "verify" every half inning that someone scored. I think I can remember that as the game goes along.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JJ

Sorry, I guess "verify" is too technical/legal/picky for you. For me, "verify" means, "Hey, Team A, what have YOU got? And Team B, what have YOU got?" If they have differences, we sort them out before we start the next half inning. If THEY can't agree, they're idiots, and I "agree" for them.

JJ
PS I would "verify" every half inning that someone scored. I think I can remember that as the game goes along.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification - I get what you're saying now.

[silverpie]

Over 'cross the pond, their version of bats and balls actually puts it in the rules:

"The scorers shall frequently check to ensure that their records agree. They shall agree with the umpires, at least at every interval, other than a drinks interval, and at the conclusion of the match, the runs scored, the wickets that have fallen and, where appropriate, the number of overs bowled."

[ozzy6900]

If you handle it like a HS game (here in CT), you would be at the dugout at the end of each half inning, "Do you show 2 runs scoring on that inning, coach?" and you make sure that you and the coach agree on the number of runs. Heck, in a half inning where I have 3 up & 3 down, I go to the dugout and say, "Do you have no runs on this inning, coach?". At first, newer coaches think I am breaking their balls (in fact... I am) but when they see that I am delaying writing on my lineup until I verify with them, they sometimes meet me at the gate with the information before I even ask.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

If you handle it like a HS game (here in CT), you would be at the dugout at the end of each half inning, "Do you show 2 runs scoring on that inning, coach?" and you make sure that you and the coach agree on the number of runs. Heck, in a half inning where I have 3 up & 3 down, I go to the dugout and say, "Do you have no runs on this inning, coach?". At first, newer coaches think I am breaking their balls (in fact... I am) but when they see that I am delaying writing on my lineup until I verify with them, they sometimes meet me at the gate with the information before I even ask.

Really? I couldn't even tell you the score 90% of the time. I have worked games where we had a 10-run rule and the only hint I had was the teams lining up.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by silverpie

Over 'cross the pond, their version of bats and balls actually puts it in the rules:

"The scorers shall frequently check to ensure that their records agree. They shall agree with the umpires, at least at every interval, other than a drinks interval, and at the conclusion of the match, the runs scored, the wickets that have fallen and, where appropriate, the number of overs bowled."

Being a cricket follower since living overseas, I think I'd take that trade-off. Because those same laws of cricket also allow for very little dissent against an umpire's ruling. Even better than THAT - they actually enforce those laws (as opposed to our rulebook, which says players and coaches can't - and I'm paraphrasing slightly - act like jackoffs, and how does THAT work out?).

There are plenty of times where players lose their some or all of their match fees for "dissent," and sometimes that just means bad body language.

Between that, and the drinks and tea breaks, sounds pretty freaking awesome.

[Tim C]

If I showed up to work a game and the game management informed me that I was also to keep score for the game I would hand the assignment back and go have a cold adult beverage.

It is the JOB of tournament organizers to but on a well thoughtout and covered tourney. They charge the teams to play.

Pretty soon ya'll will be working for free (like Copperstown Park) while the organizer makes the money.

Sad state of affairs.

T

[GoodwillRef]

I would make plans with my wife for this exact weekend next year...not working for a yahoo like this.