Little League - grounds for forfeit

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Behind compared to what though?

Principally PONY, but also travel ball and the other stuff that springs from those programs. Whatever the league affiliation, it is critical that a young player learn base running and pitching with runners on base way before he is 13. Playing in a ballpark with realistic outfield fence distances also is a critical element.

I'm from Southern California. Here, Little League players have little chance of being a high school player, and no chance at all at a competitive high school. It's been that way around here for about a dozen years, now. And it is becoming that way most everywhere.

I have literally seen one Little Leaguer make it at a competitive local high school. He was the ace on the Thousand Oaks team that won Williamsport. He didn't start until he was a senior, and only made it at all because he was a left-handed pitcher.

I'm sorry that's the way it is, but it's just the way it works these years.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

And BTW, how could two different coach groups go through an entire season and not know pitchers can't return. It's in the rule book in more than one place (Reg VI(b), 3.03(3), and T-Rule 4(c)).

Rich, you're making a huge assumption that coaches actually read the rule book.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Rich, you're making a huge assumption that coaches actually read the rule book.

Having dealt with coaches for close to 40 years - they almost always read the pitching and sub rules because they know they need to know them. It's the other 998 rules they don't read.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I'm from Southern California. Here, Little League players have little chance of being a high school player, and no chance at all at a competitive high school. It's been that way around here for about a dozen years, now. And it is becoming that way most everywhere.

I have literally seen one Little Leaguer make it at a competitive local high school.

A little further down the 5, it's a different story. LL is King, and PONY is it's slow, drooling little brother. Our town is sandwiched between two PONY bergs, that get the beat down from our high school teams year after year. Nearly every player on the two HS teams are LL products.

I think the real difference it the quality of the coaches teaching the game. I've umpired in the surrounding PONY leagues, and it's just not there, for whatever reason. They're just not savvy.

I truly believe that good coaching is passed down year to year within a league, no matter the affiliation.

[jicecone]

Sorry Kevin, as well as your examples for S. Calif. may support your threads here, I don't believe it is indicative of the entire HS, College or Pro community.

Good talent does not always begin at 11, 12 or 13 and High School is certainly not the only judge of good talent in a ballplayers career.

Your supporting facts may or may not be true for where you live but, I don't believe it is for all areas. JMO

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

, it is critical that a young player learn base running and pitching with runners on base way before he is 13. .

WHY?

It's maybe two days of practice to teach that stuff.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Berkut

I am just rather surprised that 10 year old LL baseball is such serious business that a trivial mistake like this warrants some adults appealing a game and getting a forfeit win out of it.

Mistake not trivial. If you think this trivial save some money and don't hire umpires. Just get the parents to call 'em from the bleachers and see how that works out.

The board only gets the appeals. Shame on the blues for not allowing this to happen.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Sorry Kevin, as well as your examples for S. Calif. may support your threads here, I don't believe it is indicative of the entire HS, College or Pro community.

Good talent does not always begin at 11, 12 or 13 and High School is certainly not the only judge of good talent in a ballplayers career.

Your supporting facts may or may not be true for where you live but, I don't believe it is for all areas. JMO

May or may not be true? I've been involved in this in several capacities for an extended period all over Southern California.

Maybe if I highlight the keywords, my message will be more clear:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Principally PONY, but also travel ball and the other stuff that springs from those programs. Whatever the league affiliation, it is critical that a young player learn base running and pitching with runners on base way before he is 13. Playing in a ballpark with realistic outfield fence distances also is a critical element.

I'm from Southern California. Here, Little League players have little chance of being a high school player, and no chance at all at a competitive high school. It's been that way around here for about a dozen years, now. And it is becoming that way most everywhere.

I have literally seen one Little Leaguer make it at a competitive local high school. He was the ace on the Thousand Oaks team that won Williamsport. He didn't start until he was a senior, and only made it at all because he was a left-handed pitcher.

I'm sorry that's the way it is, but it's just the way it works these years.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

WHY?

It's maybe two days of practice to teach that stuff.

That speaks to the quality of LL coaching.

Back in the days when a computer took up its own room, our Babe Ruth coach spent much more time coaching these critical parts of the game. Perhaps surprisingly to you, high school and college coaches continued our education in these areas. Maybe someone should have told them that it takes maybe two days. It would have saved us a lot of work.

[kylejt]

I'd say it was half a season of LL Juniors to get them up to speed on the open bases. But most good LL players are also playing travel ball in the offseason, so there's usually no problems at all.

[jicecone]

Kevin, your begining to sound like a New Yorker. They believe that the world is not flat or round. It just doesn't exist outside the city limits of New York.

So let me highlite the key words for you!

So.California represents approximately 1.4% of the United States in area and 3.5 % in population.

In the last statistics course I took, these numbers hardly justify being represenative for the norm.

But as a resident of So. Cal. if you wish to believe otherwise, Happy Birthday to you.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by jicecone

So.California represents approximately 1.4% of the United States in area and 3.5 % in population.

They also supply a disproportionate amount of better baseball players, as does Florida and the Dominican Republic.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

That speaks to the quality of LL coaching.

Back in the days when a computer took up its own room, our Babe Ruth coach spent much more time coaching these critical parts of the game. Perhaps surprisingly to you, high school and college coaches continued our education in these areas. Maybe someone should have told them that it takes maybe two days. It would have saved us a lot of work.

What baserunning skills are different? All the other stuff is the same in both worlds.

1) How to lead off and not get picked off doing it.

2) ????

3) ????

4) ????

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

What baserunning skills are different? All the other stuff is the same in both worlds.

1) How to lead off and not get picked off doing it.

2) ????

3) ????

4) ????

Oh, you misunderstand me. I recognize your authority as an expert on teaching pitching techniques with runners on base and base running in two days. I'm forwarding your name to several college and MiLB teams so they can just spend two days on that in training camp.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Oh, you misunderstand me. I recognize your authority as an expert on teaching pitching techniques with runners on base and base running in two days. I'm forwarding your name to several college and MiLB teams so they can just spend two days on that in training camp.

Then again, perhaps some facts may support a personal opinion. The statement has been made that the LL program no longer produces the majority of the high school players in S. Calif, and in other parts of the country. True! It has been admitted that LL represents less than half of the youth baseball programs in the country.

But how does less than half fall to almost no one from a LL program makes it to high school ball in S Calif, unless they happen to be the star pitcher on a LLWS championship team? Highly interesting, but very doubtful.