Does the run count???

[celebur]

Originally Posted by EHLNOLA

I'm focusing on the action of the player being put out and not the situation that it occurred during. I'm associating the tag with being a no force out. As opposed to remembering that even though he was tagged he was still forced to 2nd.

Now you got it. A 'force out' can be made by tagging either the runner or the bag (not just the bag).

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by EHLNOLA

Crazy situation I heard about the other night. Trying to figure out if the run scores in the situation.

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter hits a ground ball to 2nd baseman. Instead of throwing to 2nd or 1st base to end the inning the fielder turns to tag the runner going to 2nd. Runner then slows down and gets chased by fielder and eventually tagged for the 3rd out. However, while this was happening, the runner from 3rd safely crossed home plate. Therefore, the runner crossed home plate prior to the other runner being tagged for the 3rd out.

Does the run score?

Thanks
Earl

Okay, you are obviously not an umpire so let me try to put into layman's terms.

1. Bases are loaded, so any hit will cause a force play at any base. Got that part?
2. Now, in order to put out a runner in a force situation, you can either tag the base or tag the runner with the ball to cause that runner to be out.
3. It does not matter if the runner is running to the next base, caught in a run down or is back-peddling to the previous base - he is still a forced runner.
4. No runs can score when the 3rd out is a force, so it doesn't matter when the runner from 3rd crossed the plate.

So, if all runners are in a force situation and you either tag the base or tag the runner, no runs can score.

**** Umpires, please do not confuse the poster with the other reasons a run cannot score, let's try to get him/her to understand the situation that he/she posted. ****

[bsaucer]

Originally Posted by EHLNOLA

Ok. I see where I went wrong here, other than over thinking a simple situation.

I'm focusing on the action of the player being put out and not the situation that it occurred during. I'm associating the tag with being a no force out. As opposed to remembering that even though he was tagged he was still forced to 2nd.

Makes sense now. Thank you guys.

Technically, it is a force out because he failed to reach second base.

Here's a play: Bottom of ninth. Score Tied. Bases loaded. Two outs. Batter walks. Batter and each runner MUST advance and touch one base for the run to count. Otherwise, they can be put out on appeal. That would be a force, and would cancel the run.

Same if batter is hit by pitch. In this case, ball is dead.

[UmpJM]

bsaucer,

There are so many incorrect things in your post, I don't know where to start.

JM

[kopan99]

Here's a play: Bottom of ninth. Score Tied. Bases loaded. Two outs. Batter walks. Batter and each runner MUST advance and touch one base for the run to count. Otherwise, they can be put out on appeal. That would be a force, and would cancel the run.

Same if batter is hit by pitch. In this case, ball is dead.

BB or HBP is a base award, not a force. The subsequent appeal will not cancel the run.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Technically, it is a force out because he failed to reach second base.

Let's work on one thing at a time.

Rule 2.00 FORCE PLAY: "A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner."

The scoring rule (4.09) refers to "any runner being forced out," which means put out during a force play.

So although it is true that R1 can be forced out only until he reaches 2B, that is a consequence of the definition of 'force play', and not the definition itself. Your statement is thus confused and an obstacle to correct understanding of 4.09.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Technically, it is a force out because he failed to reach second base.

Here's a play: Bottom of ninth. Score Tied. Bases loaded. Two outs. Batter walks. Batter and each runner MUST advance and touch one base for the run to count. Otherwise, they can be put out on appeal. That would be a force, and would cancel the run.

Same if batter is hit by pitch. In this case, ball is dead.

Nice try.

Only the batter and R3 need to advance. The ONLY way you can get an out is if either the batter or R3 REFUSE to advance.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Here's a play: Bottom of ninth. Score Tied. Bases loaded. Two outs. Batter walks. Batter and each runner MUST advance and touch one base for the run to count. Otherwise, they can be put out on appeal. That would be a force, and would cancel the run.

Others have pointed out that this is incorrect under OBR.

In FED, you would be correct.